The REAL issue we have with verizon regarding the N1/Increbible

[Dasher]

I purchased the Storm 1 the day it came out on Verizon.  I loved the phone and was happy to see Verizon at least TRYING to release something before it was outdated on the other networks, but sadly this was only a sliver of satisfaction that will never be met again as it currently seems.

I have been a loyal Verizon customer since I got my first cell phone over 8 years ago, I would never think of switching networks until now though.  For a company to completely IGNORE the demand it's customers have (that is in this case, new phones that aren't outdated) is unnacceptable.  Verizon reps can argue with me all they like about how switching networks will dissapoint me, and verizon has the best coverage, blah blah blah.  What good is coverage if you can't use it.  I can make and receive phone calls on any phone I want, but things like internet browsing and various other data based abilities are useless when the hardware is total crap, or in this case non-existent.  Wake up Verizon, I know it doesn't make sense to you, but the general public will take an iPhone over anything from verizon because the hardware is so **bleep** good! 

I am no iPhone or apple fanboy, quite the opposite, however as a business person I can't see what Verizon hopes to accomplish by simply having a good network without decent phones to use on it.  It SICKENS me that you still try to sell me a Droid when I walk in to the store but will not even MENTION the N1 or incredible (two phones that your marketing department should get their heads out of their a$$es for).  Why do your sales reps push outdated technology?  The Droid is great, but facts are facts and the two aforementioned handsets are quite a ways ahead of the Droid in terms of what they can do.  And for the record, releasing ONE decent phone (the droid aint bad) does not make up for not releasing TONS of phones that I could obtain on other networks, that you too could have available.  

Here is a good way of putting it for those that can't see the obvious failure Verizon as a business is becoming.  Look at game consoles.  What if the 360 was this awesome powerhouse but a game would only be released on it once every month or so, worse yet these games would have already been out or bested by that of a rival console, that doesn't sound like a good way to keep cusomters happy.  This is obviously a hypthetical situation, you know why?  Because it sounds completely **bleep** for it to be done that way, just as it is absurd that Verizon talk up their network but not have anything worth using the network on.

Verizon, how are you going to tell me I should stay on your network (which I like) when I have nothing worth using on that network?  Your business strategy of shunning handsets away will not last long.  In the early days of mobile phones I could accept a crappy phone for a better network, but guess what?  IT'S NOT 2002 ANYMORE!  While AT&T/Sprint may drop a few more calls than you, so be it, if it means I can actually have a phone that is not easily replaced by an iPOD touch in terms of usablity. 

It really wouldn't have taken much for me, just a god ****** announcement, just one!  Show that you at least PRETEND to care about the thousands of twitter posts, comments, articles, facebook status', etc... that your marketing team clearly does not look at, that state with resound that we don't care about some HTC Devour, these were the two phones we wanted to see, you wouldn't even have needed to market them like you will the HTC Devour, a phone no one cares about in comparison and therefore will need a great deal of market penetration (costing plenty of $) to convince people to by it. 

My cell phone provider should not be compared to socialized healthcare in the way their business practice works, but you are telling me here's a network, and here's 3 phones to choose from (face it, most of the phones verizon offers are direct substitutes for eachother with ALMOST NO diversity from model to model).  I will take my business elsewhere to a company that cares about their customers, and understands when they are not meeting expectations.

[logicman]

As it says on the main page:

These Forums are a peer-to-peer support channel in which users help other users. If you need an answer from Verizon directly please Contact Us.

So the CEO of Verizon Wireless is probably not going to see your post. However, you might get more bang for your buck if you emailed him directly. There is a link at the bottom of this page Lowell McAdam President and CEO that will allow you to do that. Hope this helps.

[Smokeater]

Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfectly said. Maybe someone will take notice and do something about it.

[supitsmike]

---

Dasher wrote:

I am no iPhone or apple fanboy, quite the opposite, however as a business person I can't see what Verizon hopes to accomplish by simply having a good network without decent phones to use on it.  It SICKENS me that you still try to sell me a Droid when I walk in to the store but will not even MENTION the N1 or incredible (two phones that your marketing department should get their heads out of their a$$es for).  Why do your sales reps push outdated technology?  The Droid is great, but facts are facts and the two aforementioned handsets are quite a ways ahead of the Droid in terms of what they can do.  And for the record, releasing ONE decent phone (the droid aint bad) does not make up for not releasing TONS of phones that I could obtain on other networks, that you too could have available.  

While I can understand your frustration, I wouldn't call the Droid's hardware garbage just yet. The only phone that's out now that really surpasses the Droid would be the Nexus. The Incredible does have good specs, but not by that large of a margin. I would call the Droid a good device that can hold itself down for a while before you're going to start to feel like it's 'mandatory' to replace it.

Here is a good way of putting it for those that can't see the obvious failure Verizon as a business is becoming.  Look at game consoles.  What if the 360 was this awesome powerhouse but a game would only be released on it once every month or so, worse yet these games would have already been out or bested by that of a rival console, that doesn't sound like a good way to keep cusomters happy.  This is obviously a hypthetical situation, you know why?  Because it sounds completely **bleep** for it to be done that way, just as it is absurd that Verizon talk up their network but not have anything worth using the network on.

You're only really reinforcing the point against the one you're trying to make. Lets take something current, say, Final Fantasy XIII that was released on the 360/PS3.  If Microsoft came up to you and said "Sorry, it'll take a little bit more time for us to push this game out for you because of something on our end, and we figured it's not really fair to give you something less than great to play", would you be upset? I know I wouldn't. I would feel good that they have my best interest in thought. Are you going to reply to them "WELL LOOK AT SONY! THEY HAVE IT ON THEIR PS3!!!!11!!!!"? If you did you'd be silly, because the 360 and PS3 are on different technologies and handle the way they play games differently.

This is no different from anything else technology related. Cellphones, computers, e-readers, even video games within themself are so very different that comparing apples to oranges is a waste of time. 

Verizon, how are you going to tell me I should stay on your network (which I like) when I have nothing worth using on that network?  Your business strategy of shunning handsets away will not last long.  In the early days of mobile phones I could accept a crappy phone for a better network, but guess what?  IT'S NOT 2002 ANYMORE!  While AT&T/Sprint may drop a few more calls than you, so be it, if it means I can actually have a phone that is not easily replaced by an iPOD touch in terms of usablity. 

I don't know what you're talking about. Crappy phones? Just at the top of my head you have three pretty awesome Android phones that do it's job and more just fine.

It really wouldn't have taken much for me, just a god ****** announcement, just one!  Show that you at least PRETEND to care about the thousands of twitter posts, comments, articles, facebook status', etc... that your marketing team clearly does not look at, that state with resound that we don't care about some HTC Devour, these were the two phones we wanted to see, you wouldn't even have needed to market them like you will the HTC Devour, a phone no one cares about in comparison and therefore will need a great deal of market penetration (costing plenty of $) to convince people to by it. 

I've stated something to this effect before and I'll do it again; Announcing something prematurely or before you feel ready to do this is only a formula for disaster. In any business, putting out announcements that people will quote and use against them is something that no business wants to go through.

My cell phone provider should not be compared to socialized healthcare in the way their business practice works, but you are telling me here's a network, and here's 3 phones to choose from (face it, most of the phones verizon offers are direct substitutes for eachother with ALMOST NO diversity from model to model).  I will take my business elsewhere to a company that cares about their customers, and understands when they are not meeting expectations.

To where? You'd be surprised that most companies do the same thing! In fact, a couple of months ago, I saw an HTC Rep with the HD2, making calls in a T-Mobile store. I asked if it was going to be on T-Mobile and he wouldn't even answer that! You can't complain because they aren't telling you want you want to hear, or ask for. Instead, go outside and fish or something to occupy the time you're waiting.

---

[bb2droid]

mike:

I think the real isssue is just the fact that they are so quiet about everything.  They don't have the cheapest plans or best phones.  They need to at least put some info out there.  Sprint is doing good by its customers by making these announcements.  As far as game consoles go they pay the game makers alot of money for exclusive announcements.  In other words the game is coming out and xbox or ps pay big bucks to have their console mentioned at the end of the commercial.

[scarshapedstar]

---

supitsmike wrote:

I've stated something to this effect before and I'll do it again; Announcing something prematurely or before you feel ready to do this is only a formula for disaster. In any business, putting out announcements that people will quote and use against them is something that no business wants to go through.

---

I totally understand what you're saying, but it would be nice to THROW US A FRICKIN' BONE HERE! Companies like Blizzard delay things for YEARS and say "we'll sell it when it's ready" and people still worship them because their games are that freakin' good. Granted, cell phones are a more competitive business, but it seriously would not hurt at all to give us even a vague and canned "We're just as excited about the Nexus One and Incredible as you guys are, and we're working around the clock to make sure that they're worth the wait. They'll be here sooner than you think and you will get a FREE STICKER!"

Seriously, this feels like when someone is about to dump you and they give you the silent treatment. (Perhaps that's unnecessarily revealing!) It's just harsh. Why let us wither on the vine?

EDIT: Maybe they resent the fact that so much of the buzz is being driven by internal documents leaked to the internet... I guess I could play devil's advocate and say that this is Verizon's deliberate PR strategy and that the leakers are secretly employed by the marketing department, but there doesn't seem to be any benefit to portraying themselves as a black-box corporation, jealously clenching all their near-future information in their iron fists.

So actually I will say that I never read ANY of the leaked info and never will! I eagerly await Verizon's official proclamations and certainly wouldn't complain if I were (cough cough) bumped to the front of the line for new Android devices...  (nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more.)

[supitsmike]

SPOILER:

Spoiler

This is going to get very, very, VERY geeked up. Please proceed at your own risk.

---

scarshapedstar wrote:

I totally understand what you're saying, but it would be nice to THROW US A FRICKIN' BONE HERE!

I am no businessman, however, I will say that I don't think it is in business practice to 'throw them a frickin' bone' when it's not written on paper and signed.

Companies like Blizzard delay things for YEARS and say "we'll sell it when it's ready" and people still worship them because their games are that freakin' good. Granted, cell phones are a more competitive business, but it seriously would not hurt at all to give us even a vague and canned "We're just as excited about the Nexus One and Incredible as you guys are, and we're working around the clock to make sure that they're worth the wait. They'll be here sooner than you think and you will get a FREE STICKER!"

If you're a WoWHead like me, then you'd know Blizzard does NOT do things like that. Lets take the Cataclysm class updates. Paladins, are last in line to get their information sent out and even still, when people know that information is to be released on the 16th, they complain and moan because its not what they want. They only started recently last year became active on the forums to communicate with their userbase. Even after the Devour was released, it took a few weeks for that information to travel to these forums, much less an 'official' announcement from Verizon themselves.

Seriously, this feels like when someone is about to dump you and they give you the silent treatment. (Perhaps that's unnecessarily revealing!) It's just harsh. Why let us wither on the vine?

This is a cellphone company, in the business of providing voice and data services! Not to make you feel good and warm on the inside!

EDIT: Maybe they resent the fact that so much of the buzz is being driven by internal documents leaked to the internet... I guess I could play devil's advocate and say that this is Verizon's deliberate PR strategy and that the leakers are secretly employed by the marketing department, but there doesn't seem to be any benefit to portraying themselves as a black-box corporation, jealously clenching all their near-future information in their iron fists.

So actually I will say that I never read ANY of the leaked info and never will! I eagerly await Verizon's official proclamations and certainly wouldn't complain if I were (cough cough) bumped to the front of the line for new Android devices...  (nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more.)

---

[scarshapedstar]

---

supitsmike wrote:

If you're a WoWHead like me, then you'd know Blizzard does NOT do things like that.

---

Warcraft II -  III: 7 years.

Diablo II - III: 10 years (and counting!)

Starcraft I - II: 12 years (and counting!)

Granted, they have other things on their plate and they weren't really promising sequels during all those timespans, but this was what I was referring to. Not that this really has any bearing to the topic at hand.

[max69442]

---

supitsmike wrote:

I am no businessman, however, I will say that I don't think it is in business practice to 'throw them a frickin' bone' when it's not written on paper and signed.

 This is a cellphone company, in the business of providing voice and data services! Not to make you feel good and warm on the inside!

You don't think it is in business practice to give the customers what they want or to keep them satisfied. Maybe that's the problem with business these days. As far as the business standpoint, letting people know that something is upcoming would not cost them anything. From all I've read on the matter, and this has been no small amount of reading, there are a few reasons why they are releasing this like they are.

1. Droid Eris end of life. If you've still got these in stock why would you announce a phone that trumps it in every  way     when you want to get down to zero stock?

2. Moto Droid is still selling like mad. Same reason as above only to thin down the stock.

3. Viral. This underground marketing tool creates serious hype by showing snippets here and there and it's cheap/free as mostly people other than the manufacturer are promoting it.

These are the three most speculated reasons why they are releasing the Incredible the way they are. As far as the N1, that has to do with problems they found with it (possibly screen issues like the GSM units?), plus Verizon at this time will NOT be carrying this phone! Google is selling it and Verizon will let it run on their network. Verizon will not handle issues with hardware or software, that will be through Google as far as everything I have read on. And the only way it will be subsidized will be for new customers. I know it's different than what we're used to, but this is Googles decision to do this and as far as I can remember nobody else has done this before. If you want the N1, you will have to go through Google website.

[dabubbakin]

I hear that the Nexus One is actually being sold in Verizon stores. I realize it's against everything Google believes but then again Google believes in making money too right? The N1 sales suck and they know it. The only way to sell more is to get it in a store. Now I can't say that's actually going to happen but it seems probable. I'm sure Google will bend over on this one while Verizon takes it to them on selling it but who cares at this point? The N1 is barely pulling its own right now. Give it 6 more months and nobody will care anymore. Unless Google planned on losing some money I can see the strategy here. If not than Google is desperate for some sales.

Will Verizon let the N1 cut into Incredible sales? Heck no! It'll be interesting to see what happens this month.

P.S. I have a few VZW friends at a store including a store manager who claim everything comes this month along with the N1 being sold in stores. I questioned them a lot about this and they have no more answers. Nobody knows for sure. They claim most new phones that come out are opened and displayed the morning they work. Verizon keeps a good secret most of the time. They get some info... but not everything.

Meanwhile I'll be sitting here with my Voyager hidden in my pocket for nobody to see.

[fezzik]

Supits did I really see you say the Incredible's stats weren't that much better than the DROID and that the N1 was.  The incredible is superior at least on paper to the N1.  Questionable how that translates in practicality.  Since this thread though we discovered that because of the Incredible Google will no longer offer the N1 for Verizon.  My suspicion is that Verizon was not going to subsidize it or decided not to late in the game because the Incredible was Verizon Branded and the same or better. 

The DROID is by no means obsolete.  I would still recommend it to anyone who wants a physical keyboard on Verizon.  It's just that with the introduction of the Incredible, the Nexus one, and the EVO 4G the DROID has become a mid-grade phone.  There is a place for mid-grade Smartphones.  It should be priced as a mid-Grade phone now though.  When Motorola's next puppy comes out I suspect the DROID will either reach EOL or the price will drop significantly.  Fair pricing would put the ERIS and the DEVOUR at $100 and the DROID at about $150 with the Incredible at $200.  It would be a way to keep wildly popular phones like the DROID going to a new base of customer (the ones who can't justify 200 or 100 with NE2 but could swing 50 with NE2.  As the technology pushes forward it would give phones a chain to go through.  With it's specs the DROID won't be obsolete for a long while but it won't be TOL very long.  In a year or so it will be comparable to low end phones or lower end anyway.  I suspect we will see new 528Mhz phones coming out for a while yet despite the popularity of the Snapdragon and soon the Intel Morristown.  Which I am sorry until AMD jumps on the mobile bandwagon the intel would be the way to go IMHTO. 

It seems we have only 2 levels though TOL and EL.  However, with the fast pace technology is moving in this area phones that were TOL will no longer be TOL 6 months after their release but they will still be better than EL phones and won't reach obsolescence very quickly unless they are priced out of the market. 

Just a thought. 

[M91-30]

if phones are so "obsolete" after a supposedly small amount of time, why are people buying 3-4 year old phones, or holding on to phones for 3-4 years? honestly, how can you consider the omnia 2, moto droid, droid eris, palm pre/pixi plus, imagio all obsolete? and that's just smart phones, if you get into it, all the 3G multimedia and ruggedized phones are relavant andnone are obsolete...

[Extrenergy]

This is a very good critique, and I wonder many of the same things myself. I call Verizon pretty regularly to ask when the N1 is coming out, and of course all I ever get is that CSRs don't know anything until the day before release, due to concerns of information leakage. 

I am very frustrated that we've been waiting all this time for the N1. The droid was never an option for me, as it is clunky and shaped for a man size hand. I really wanted to be enthusiastic about staying with Verizon for an android OS, but with every passing week and no announcement, my positive feelings are waning.

I would hope that someone in marketing is monitoring these boards.

Thanks for your post.

[Menace]

Amen brother, {word filter avoidance}
.

[honu]

Stopped by a Verizon store today and was told that the mgr had talked to the HTC rep this week and we should not expect Incredible until summer...

[Menace]

Don't care about Incredible, I want news on the Nexus One for christsake

[jsh1120]

---

Dasher wrote:

I purchased the Storm 1 the day it came out on Verizon.  I loved the phone and was happy to see Verizon at least TRYING to release something before it was outdated on the other networks, but sadly this was only a sliver of satisfaction that will never be met again as it currently seems.

I have been a loyal Verizon customer since I got my first cell phone over 8 years ago, I would never think of switching networks until now though.  For a company to completely IGNORE the demand it's customers have (that is in this case, new phones that aren't outdated) is unnacceptable.  Verizon reps can argue with me all they like about how switching networks will dissapoint me, and verizon has the best coverage, blah blah blah.  What good is coverage if you can't use it.  I can make and receive phone calls on any phone I want, but things like internet browsing and various other data based abilities are useless when the hardware is total crap, or in this case non-existent.  Wake up Verizon, I know it doesn't make sense to you, but the general public will take an iPhone over anything from verizon because the hardware is so **bleep** good! 

I am no iPhone or apple fanboy, quite the opposite, however as a business person I can't see what Verizon hopes to accomplish by simply having a good network without decent phones to use on it.  It SICKENS me that you still try to sell me a Droid when I walk in to the store but will not even MENTION the N1 or incredible (two phones that your marketing department should get their heads out of their a$$es for).  Why do your sales reps push outdated technology?  The Droid is great, but facts are facts and the two aforementioned handsets are quite a ways ahead of the Droid in terms of what they can do.  And for the record, releasing ONE decent phone (the droid aint bad) does not make up for not releasing TONS of phones that I could obtain on other networks, that you too could have available.  

Here is a good way of putting it for those that can't see the obvious failure Verizon as a business is becoming.  Look at game consoles.  What if the 360 was this awesome powerhouse but a game would only be released on it once every month or so, worse yet these games would have already been out or bested by that of a rival console, that doesn't sound like a good way to keep cusomters happy.  This is obviously a hypthetical situation, you know why?  Because it sounds completely **bleep** for it to be done that way, just as it is absurd that Verizon talk up their network but not have anything worth using the network on.

Verizon, how are you going to tell me I should stay on your network (which I like) when I have nothing worth using on that network?  Your business strategy of shunning handsets away will not last long.  In the early days of mobile phones I could accept a crappy phone for a better network, but guess what?  IT'S NOT 2002 ANYMORE!  While AT&T/Sprint may drop a few more calls than you, so be it, if it means I can actually have a phone that is not easily replaced by an iPOD touch in terms of usablity. 

It really wouldn't have taken much for me, just a god ****** announcement, just one!  Show that you at least PRETEND to care about the thousands of twitter posts, comments, articles, facebook status', etc... that your marketing team clearly does not look at, that state with resound that we don't care about some HTC Devour, these were the two phones we wanted to see, you wouldn't even have needed to market them like you will the HTC Devour, a phone no one cares about in comparison and therefore will need a great deal of market penetration (costing plenty of $) to convince people to by it. 

My cell phone provider should not be compared to socialized healthcare in the way their business practice works, but you are telling me here's a network, and here's 3 phones to choose from (face it, most of the phones verizon offers are direct substitutes for eachother with ALMOST NO diversity from model to model).  I will take my business elsewhere to a company that cares about their customers, and understands when they are not meeting expectations.

---

I'd definitely recommend that you take your business elsewhere. If and when enough folks do so Verizon will in all likelihood reevaluate their business strategy. As it stands, they continue to dominate the marketplace in the US. And month after month they add more subscribers than any other carrier. It's sad that you feel you're being ignored by a multibillion dollar corporation. Perhaps you can find one that cares about you. And it's sad that you feel Verizon is far behind in the race to have the newest, greatest, fastest, sexiest cell phone of the month.

Here's a dose of reality. American consumers don't want to pay the real cost of cell phones up front. They want a carrier to finance those purchases. In return VZW and other carriers demand that a consumer obligate him/herself to a multiyear contract. Once that's done, VZW has almost no incentive to "care" about you since you're very unlikely to abandon your contract and pay for what you've asked VZW to pay for.

If you want "choice" in your cell phones, move to Europe where the purchase of a phone and the selection of a wireless carrier are separate choices. But as long as you want the carrier to buy your phone (or a substantial part of it) for you, be prepared to be a minor consideration in the carrier's calculus which is, after all, devoted to a corporate bottom line, not your happiness.

Or perhaps you should try a different strategy; one that doesn't involve evaluating your worth as a human being in terms of whether you happen to have the newest, fastest, most feature packed phone.

[ElMoreno429]

WOW . . .harsh much!!!

[Anev]

Had to force myself to create an account just so I can say, great post.  Right on the nose!  Sadly though, I do suspect that it won't get read by anyone who can do anything but at the least it is nice to know that there are others who are tired of the rat maze we have been placed in and forced to play.

[ryan49er]

Even if these phones do become available right away.  Say Verizon gets the latest greatest thing first.  Are you going to pay full price say $500.00 on up to have it? Chances are you have a contract and aren't eligible for an upgrade price. I'm not going to pay that kind of money for something that will be obsolete in a year.  My point is that if Verizon is going to get better phones and discontinue the older models shouldn't we as loyal customers be eligible to upgrade to the best hardware at the same price new customers are given?  I don't have that kind of money to shell out every 6 months anyway no matter how bad I gotta have it.

[scarshapedstar]

I've been using Razrs for 6 years, out of contract for two years now! Only recently do I really feel like it's worth the money to jump into the internet age. I know the Droid is pretty nice but it doesn't make sense to buy one this late into its life cycle. Haven't really been impressed with smart phones into general until recently, and I doubt I'm the only one lookinh to make a quantum leap... c'mon Verizon, you can do it! Scratch that, WE can do it! Yeah! You give us the phones, we'll give you the money, 'nuff said.