Feeling Duped and forced to pay more

[realism51]

Got an offer in the mail back in May 2011 stating that I am eligible for an early upgrade for my cellular device with verizon. Had been with verizon a year now with a Droid Incredible and took into consideration the upgrade offer since the Droid incredible had been removed and basically not supported after a year of being out, (Dissapointing). I do a lot of research online about the phones I was eligble for and when I called in I grilled the Sales rep about the HTC thunderbolt, asking all questions about its functionality, problems, signal strength, updates. SR informed me that he had one and had had no problems with it and it was the best phone ever with no problems. I Order the phone on June 1st and get it on the 4th of June and start testing it out and playing with it, found out it had some issues like weak signal strength, video recording resulted in nearly no sound. Camere would F/C often and was really sluggish for a bit. Called Verizon CSR and was trnafered to tech department who told me that there is an update coming out to fix the problems associated with the video recording but was unsure when but would be within 30 days. I asked if it took longer than that and never was released I would have a phone that I could not utilize how I needed it, since my job requires me to have access to such things. The Tech person stated that she understands and would include in the notes that she will be extending my 14 day return period to 30 days since she was a supervisor and had the authority to do so.

June 10th rolls around and the update pushes through to my phone, instead of fixing the issue it bricked it into an endless cycle of restart and then would go to the screen with the green droid and a yellow ! inside of a triangle. (and no, I dont know how to root a phone so thats not the cause [Store rep asked me if it was rooted and then explained what rooted was]...

Calling CSR and sent to tech support and was told that I could take it into the store and just exchange it out. Took it into store on the 11th and exchanged TB for new one that updated fine. Got home and by the 12th I had already had several restarts, lack of data capability, no internet, txt messages not sending, video recording still no sound really, battery was way bad. Battery also got hot, temped with IR thermometer at 109 degrees, left a nice hot spot on my leg. Called Verizon CSR and told them what the new phone was doing, and I was told that they would send me out a refurbished one, I protested this to the fact that this was already a replacement phone that was 1 day old and that a refurb would not be acceptable. After being placed on hold for a few minutes the CSR came back on phone and said that I could take it into the store and exchange it for another one, I asked about the 30 day extension on my return period and if this new phone had same issues that I could just return it and cancel out my extended two year service plan. There was no record of that in notes I was told. Was upset that I was lied to, but hey the sales rep told me it was a great phone with no problems reported. So I took the 2nd phone back the the store and got a 3rd replacement and everything was swapped out including the SIMM. 

Before I even got home it restarted on me, data connectivity was slow and near non existant and would not connect despite being in perfect 3G area service that I had no issues with my Droid Incredible in the past. Did the same things as the 2nd one minus the battery temp, thank god that was painful. txt messages wouldnt send and with all 3 phones, the person on the other end could barely hear me and i could barely hear them, ear peice or speakerphone. I called back in a few days later after dealing with the store and they reset my phone and did all sorts of techie stuff to it with no change. 

Verizon CSR on the phone and I asked if I could just return the phone and get my account credited for the cost of the phone and to undo the extension of the 2 year agreement since I had only had this 3rd phone for a few days. I was told that NO they could not do that because it was beyond the 14 day return period and that even if you received a new phone to replace a malfunctioning unit it did not restart with that phone and since there was no record of the 30 day extension that I was out of luck. CSR told me that they would not be willing to send me out another phone to replace it but what they could do for me was to let me pick out a new phone at 2 year agreement prices (iphone not an option [fine by me, im not an apple fan]) and they would renew my contract for 2 years. I told her I didnt like that idea and that it would cost me a lot of money for a new phone, the CSR said I could take my malfuncitoning device in and get credit for it that would go towards the purchase of a new phone. I told the CSR that I would think about it and call back after talking to the local Verizon store and doing indepth on phone reviews. 

Well after doing a lot of research theonly phone that can compare was the droid charge which was $299 and it still had reported lag problems. (have to have a good camera for work.) I then looked at the trade in value of the TB online with Verizon $200. Okay so that puts me out the taxes and early upgrade fee that I had to pay, So even if I went with another phone of same or lesser value I would be out like $45. Wasnt happy with that but got really upset when I called Verizon store here and explained to them what happened and what I was told and because my phone was a malfunctioning unit that they would not be able to offer me the full $200 for the phone. It was suggested I sell the phone on ebay to get more out of it. 

I am looking at it as I paid $245 and some change on June 1st for a phone that had to be replaced 3 times and still is not working correctly and now I am being told that the only option I have for a working phone is to purchase another at 2 year pricing which would be another $245-$345. So right now Im looking at $500-$600 in space of two months to get a workable phone. excuse me, a chance at a workable phone. I do not like this sort of an idea.

I dont see what the big deal is with letting me return the TB and cancel out the extended contract term and go back to using my Droid Incredible until my contract is up in april 2012 and I can pick up a better phone at that time. 3 replacements within 20 days and now Im stuck with one that isnt working remotely like it should. At the asking price I could have purchased a unit in full price and not had a 2 year contract and just went month to month and if the phone failed I could send it direct to manufacturer for assistance. 

I am wondering if selling the TB for what I can get out of it on ebay and paying the ETF and shopping for a new carrier would work, but dont they all have problems? I guess if they all have problems go with the cheaper one right?

Just not sure what to do. Just feel lied and tricked into an extra year at extra cost for a phone that doesnt work. 

[budone]

I understand the frustrations. But this is where doing your homework comes in.  The phone had been out nearly 4 months when you got the TB. Ya think a sales rep is going to come out on their first 4G phone and say, "Yeah the phone works, but its a new model so it has some issues we are working through. You may have data drops, but you can get around it by activating airplane mode and turning it off". How many do ya think they would sell??

Ya think a car salesperson would let you know of all the recalls and issues a particular car has had that you are interested in?

Luckily for me, the phone has been ok.... I have had a few data drops, but nothing near what others have stated. That is why sometimes I wonder if it is sometimes user and app related. 

[Wildman]

Sorry to here you have had so many issues but I agree with Budone that you may have wanted to research a bit more before you picked the device because the items you spoke of has been brought out on several forums as well as on this site, I do not see how you missed the post on these things...  I can say I guess I am a lucky one when it comes to my device because I really havent had any major issues with me device, I admit the device isnt perfect and they still need to iron out some bugs but so far it hasnt been any issues that I cant deal with for now. Actually I actually love my device..

If you want you can check out my post on my impressions of the device posted at http://community.vzw.com/t5/ThunderBolt-by-HTC/Impression-of-HTC-Thunderbolts-vs-the-Motorola-Droid-...

Hope you find a solution....  Good Luck

[gina7289]

Try to get a refurbished of another devise like an LG and see if u like it. Explain to tech that u have had so many serious incidents with the thunderbolt.

[Wildman]

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The main issue is because the user got another device and there was no extended time to test the new device, this happens because this isn't a option that the normally present when trading malfunctioning device and since they only had 14 days to return device and the user had 3 devices and probably went way over the 14 Day return policy they are stuck in the device because the reps are following the policy to the book..  Also a solution (Which I don't fully agree with) but since the user doesn't want to exercise the right to accept it at the time of offer, I will bet this offer wont be offered if they call back now.  

I have learned that if you do not accept a offer when presented to you, you might run into issues if you try later.

Now I understand that a manager reported that they will extend the 14 day to 30 but without any verification the statement will not fly with Verizon, this is why I note every conversation and information on rep that I speak to because things like this happen when you have so many CS reps that you could come in contact with.

At the moment Verizon isn't totally the problem hear because in this world you have to followup on things if you want them to happen and taking a persons word these days go no where with me. 

I mean no disrespect but it is wise to cross your "T's" and dot you "I's" to avoid issues like this.

[vereyezuhn]

When you returned your first couple TBolts for new ones, did they say you can ONLY switch it for a new TBolt, or is that just what you picked? If they were letting you use your 1 exchange for any phone, I would have picked a completely new phone, especially after reading all the complaints on here.

Also, if you can get in touch with a supervisor by calling CS, they can pull your call records from when you spoke with that CSR who extended your 14 day return period and actually hear that they said that.

[gina7289]

If its very important have them pull the voice of the conversation up so u can be proven to be right.

[realism51]

I had asked about them to check it and see who was that I had talked to but was told that they couldnt tell me of things like those only of what logs are in notes in the account. Ive given it some considerable thought over night and decided that its not worth it financial for me to even pursue a purchase of a new phone with the agreement that they had offered. A business should honor agreements with their phones. Right now Im looking through my records to find the service agreement and contract and I came across a prior replacement phone slip for my wife's phone that was replaced last october and it stated there were 30 days to return/exchange, I wasnt given any slip like this which leads me to believe the possibility of ohaving a 30 day cycle.

I want to say my ETF was $150, which may be a quicker way to end this problem before I get too disenchanted with Verizon. 

I dont know if a complaint to the BBB or the FCC would expidite the process of a resolution but I ill be hopeful if it decides to take that route. 

[crabbyone]

I thought  all Verizon phones had a 1 year warranty. If you are having trouble with a device under warranty, you can get it exchanged. After several exchanges of the same item, ask to speak with a manager about getting a different device.  I have had to do this once and kept the receipts from the 3 faulty devices and when I went back the fourth time in less than 2 months, I asked to see the manager and explained the situation, showed the receipts and he approved my getting a different phone.

Good luck!!

[Wildman]

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crabbyone wrote:

I thought  all Verizon phones had a 1 year warranty. If you are having trouble with a device under warranty, you can get it exchanged. After several exchanges of the same item, ask to speak with a manager about getting a different device.  I have had to do this once and kept the receipts from the 3 faulty devices and when I went back the fourth time in less than 2 months, I asked to see the manager and explained the situation, showed the receipts and he approved my getting a different phone.

Good luck!!

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This is something that Verizon does for some customers but this isn't a official policy, also this is at their discretion....  I think Verizon stop doing this because users figured that this was how Verizon was handling a  problem device and a number of user started returning devices because they seen a new device they want and figured they can get a easy upgrade.

It is situations like this that causes policies to change because it get abused.  And as for the solution they have followed with sending out replacement devices is following this same pattern, users keep calling and demanding a fix for a device when the issue isnt hardware related and cant be fixed until a update is released so to satisfy the customer they give them a replacement, you do not need to accept the device if you know its a software issue, I have declined replacements several times because I knew I would be replacing a new device for a refurbish and in most cases this wont fix anything.

Blaming the device when its been identified as a software issue wont resolve your issues...

[crabbyone]

I think if the Op has documented the number of returns and the tech's notes that it was am issue (hardware or software) it gives the OP enough to get a manager to see the problem, AND if needed, enough to give the BBB or court a thorough understanding of the problems with this particular device. What is very peculiar is the fact the OP has the same problem at almost the same location with different devices.

 I have over 225 lines with Verizon and NEVER had this type of problem with any of them. We did get a few bad devices over the years, but a replacement always solved the issue.

[budone]

If you just got the phone in June, your ETF is $340.

Look for a PM.

[JTAllen]

A couple of thoughts...

First, as previously recommended but stated differently: name, date, time. Name, date, time. I never call any company's customer service or technical support number without pen and pad, or my computer on with a text editor page in front of me. I always ask the employee to repeat his/her name, which I record next to the date and time. All details of the conversation are noted. If you call back later, and the company denies the facts, go as far up the organization as you can, being exceedingly courteous with each person. Usually, you will end up with an acceptable accommodation.

Second, in many states, after going through multiple problems with a product and its replacements, you can declare the product to be a "lemon". If your adventures with the company are properly documented, and you have conducted yourself in a manner whereby the employees WANT to help you, you'll achieve a satisfactory conclusion. In the case of your adventures with the TBolt, there is ample evidence, even in Verizon's own "Community", that the phone is a "lemon" for those who have the bad phones. In a worst case scenario, you would prevail against VZW in Small Claims Court to void the contract, without penalty, and secure a full refund of the money you paid to VZW. Armed with that knowledge, you will likely be able to encourage VZW to make life easier for both parties.

If I were having your kind of problems with the TBolt, I'd be finding others in my immediate area and learning whether their experiences are the same as mine. Some people are being KILLED by their TBolts, whereas my wife and I are both using ones that were purchased in mid-April, with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Our area did not get the MR1 update, which was a death knell for many TBolts, so that certainly worked well for us. We also don't live in a 4G area, and it appears that most of the terrible TBolt experiences are in areas in or bordering 4G service areas. We waited until today to download the MR2 update and, since we had no problems before, we're seeing no real changes so far. Our TBolts continue to be the best phones we have ever owned.

[realism51]

$340 Would still be a better price than 2 years of $95 a month and a bunch of frustrations

[realism51]

Lol, Ally must not be to great if you want to trade it for the TB. I spoke with a main man from Verizon, (thank you Budone for the contact info) I was informed that the deal offered to me was not a valid one but that what Verizon would be willing to do was to have me bring in my phone just as if it was a trade in and I would receive a $200 credit towards the purchase of a new phone and that Verizon would try to reimburse my account for the cost of the activation fee but not the early upgrade fee. And that the 2 year agreement would stand and that I would be able to purchase a new phone and start a 2 year agreement just as if I never had one. 

So it seems that Verizon is willing to return my money in a round about way minus the activation fee possibly but wont cancel the extended 2 year agreement, thus ensuring that they get a defective phone back and I am left with an already 15 month old phone that they no longer support or offer for sale, that I have to continue to use for another 2 years. Get my money back but have to pay Verizon an extra $1140 for that extra year of service that they are unwilling to cancel out on.

I will try one more time for a much more amiable resolution before resorting to the BBB.

[AZSALUKI]

i still don't understand why they can't replace it with a comparable device (lg or charge)???? a couple other forum members have got them to do this. they had to go through 3-5 replacement tbolts first....but eventually it became obvious to verizon that they could not get them a working unit so they let them switch out for a different model. there's got to be a manager somewhere with enough sense to just let you get a replacement charge for the $50 difference.

[realism51]

Well thats the only offer that is being given to me.  Here is the conversation that I had in the end . 

Mike, 

After consideration of the only offer you have to fix the solution that you spoke to me about I am going to to have to decline for several reasons. First of which is that it does not benefit me in the least. I turn the TB in for $200 credit and I may or may not have the early upgrade fee reimbursed, but I am still locked into the rest of the 2 year contract, which would net Verizon an extra $1140 for that extra year of service for providing me a malfunctioning phone. Out of all the phones that are offered, I am not interested in any of them as they all have they complaints for valid reasons as well as they do not fulfill the purpose that I wish to use the device for. As I stated earlier in our conversation the Droid Charge was the only other cellular phone that comes close to what I want but despite its $300 tag with 2 year agreement it falls short because of the looming complaints about its speed lapses and stalling and the positioning of the phone is awkward and human error and interference is a problem when it comes to camera operations. 

Basically what you are offering me is Verizon will return my money if I return the TB but will not undo the extra year tacked onto my contract. I could buy another phone instead of being stuck using my Incredible for 40 months which probably will not last that long, but again the problem is that there is nothing worthwhile offered by Verizon currently. To me, by not simply negating the contract and allowing me to return the phone and receive the money paid is a huge slap to the face. SInce I received the phone I have also been unable to utilize the services I am paying for as they should be, so that is nearly $190 that I have paid Verizon for sub par service. 

Ultimately if i were to take your offer I would have paid $190 for services that mostly I never had access to, the cost of activating or early upgrading, the cost of the screen protectors and case that I purchased for the TB, and the $1140 for an extra year of service. All together your offer will cost me around $1400. I do not see how this is beneficial to me in the slightest. 

I have purchased a phone that I had to complain about for replacement and/or solutions 3 times, In a number of states that qualifies under the new Lemon law for cell phones. According to the forum boards and across the reviews it seems that the TB is being considered and generally accepted as a lemon and a mistake. I was deceived when I purchased the phone, I was deceived when I was told that I would have 30 days to return from the phone, and I am not pleased with either of them. I am losing trust in a company that for 14 months I regarded as the best in not only customer service but also in customer care.

Mainly what I am looking for and asking is to return the phone for the cost of what I paid for it and for any other fees that were charged to me, and to negate the extended contract and revert back to my original which ends in April 2012. 

This is similiar to what you are offering except I am asking for the additional part of the extended 2 year contract that I was mislead into. The two months of terrible phone and data service that I have received I will overlook. 

Let me know if there is a possibility of an agreement with the above suggested solution or if I will need to escalate the claim

Thank you, 

Mike

Hi Joseph:

Sorry to hear that the offers that were given do not meet your needs.  I've thoroughly notated your account on the offer in case you change your mind.  As far as your $1140, that's for cellular service, and that's not something can be waived and is irrelevant to the smartphone you choose.  I offered you the best options that I could.

I will say that if you research "problems with (X model phone)", I'm sure you will find problems with every phone on the market.  That doesn't mean that the model itself is defective.  It simply indicates individuals having problems with their specific phones. They gathered in an online community and posted their concerns. The ThunderBolt was our flagship device.  Hundreds of thousands-millions of people have the handset.  Forums, reviews, and general discussion boards are a place to seek help with problems, software glitches, etc.  You probably won't find too many forums dedicated to "everything on my phone is fine," even though most people don't have problems with it. 

In any case, the offer on the table remains.  It's notated very thoroughly on your account.  If you change your mind, feel free to give us a call at our customer service number.  Best of luck to you, and thank you for taking the time to notify me of your decision.

Best Regards,

[realism51]

Basically Verizon is unwilling to admit that there is an issue with the phone and all offers from before have been lies. Problems with a phone that I was told was fine and three hand sets later they will refund me the money I paid for the phone minus the early upgrade fee but wont let me revert back to my original contract. This is a dirty practice and Verizon has lied to me multiple times and are unwilling to fix the issue. The only recourse that I now have is a dispute with the BBB and I will be getting in touch with my legal advisor for arbitration if neccessary. 

[AZSALUKI]

ask them why you can't just pay the $50 difference between the charge and the tbolt. you cought a $250 phone already and they could replace it with a charge, which is $300. i would DEMAND that they give you a replacement droid charge for the $50 difference.

[DrDroidDre]

I will trade you my alley and some cash for your Tb.

[ChristinaB_VZW]

Hi realism51,

I definitely understand your frustration with the re-booting issues you are having with the Thunderbolt. There is a software update that corrects these issues. It does not update the software to Gingerbread, but it is a fix for the reboot issue and has many more benefits. 

You are able to view the Benefits and the instructions for the software update here . 

I am certain that you will feel differently about your device once you have performed this new update. Thank you and have a great day!