It's called 'Conversion' BitBop, Blockbuster, lets Golf, and other bloat ware

[SkyyDogg]

Hey VZW:

Here is the deal.  I have been reading multiple posts about how to remove some of the pre-loaded applications.  BitBop, Blockbuster, Let's Golf, and other bloat ware.  Essentially you have committed the legal theory of 'Conversion' by not allowing a customer to remove these applications. 

You should get your silly act together or you will find your self in another class action law suit.  To force a person to keep these and other applications is equal to selling somebody a car and telling them if they change the car radio or even remove the car radio it voids the warranty.  

Since the car radio isn't essential to the safety and functioning of the car it's a non-essential piece of equipment.  Since I am reasonably certain 'Let's Golf' isn't required to make the phone function as a phone it falls into the same category.  

By not allowing the customer to remove non-essential applications you have "Converted" that functionality or ability to function.  It's further going to be a problem for you when you DO allow a customer to download and install new launchers.  Which are an essential piece of functionality for the phone.  

Kindly cease and desist from the practice of conversion and put out a new updated that will enable people to remove unwanted pre-installed applications.  

Don't reply back with "These are a legally binding agreement between Verizon and developers."  Because apparently there are quit a few people who have paid full price for their phones and still can't get rid of them, like me.  Please don't reply back with, "We at Verizon deem these as necessary to the functionality of the phone."  In what realm of reality can you tell me I need, "Let's Golf?"  Please don't reply back with,  "These only take up limited space."  It's clear by my review of these many and previous posts that the space utilized by your forced bloatware is significant and it's there that my assertion of "Conversion" exists.  You (Verizon) have converted the promised available space to your own advertising benefit at the cost of your customers. 

[Wildman]

This has been beat to death, every carrier has installed apps like this for years and this is coming practice..  The company use apps like this to create revenue to be able to invest more into the network withour impacting the customers and if they discontinue this practice then you should expect prices to change to even out for the lost of revenue from the advertising market..

I am not crazy about some of the apps installed but the outcome of having them removed wont make you any happer because of the expected changes.

Actually if they just add a option to diable ununsed apps from running automatically would make me happy.

[Ambushbug]

So you are going to start a post on a forum, a place of public discussion, and then tell people how they can't comply to it? Ok, how about this. If you don't like it don't buy it.

[vereyezuhn]

Google is your friend. You can take those apps off.

If you don't want to take the steps to do so, live with it and stop complaining. Because there IS a solution.

[RobB772]

On this subject I agree with skydog. I'm not familiar with the term conversion but loading up the phone with uninstallable apps isn't right. PC makers were doing the same thing (loading up uninstallable software ) UNTIL they were forced to allow the end user to uninstall it WITHOUT VOIDING THEIR WARRANTY. Others keep saying "Google is your friend" but that route still forces me to void my warranty(Not viable to most people and really shouldn't be necessary). Oh, I did pay full retail price for my device so grousing is my right(if you don't like that you can stop complaining too). Hope someday an AG office hears enough complaining to "look into" this matter and while their at it look at the exorbitant text messaging charges versus actual cost to provide.

[vereyezuhn]

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RobB772 wrote:
On this subject I agree with skydog. I'm not familiar with the term conversion but loading up the phone with uninstallable apps isn't right. PC makers were doing the same thing (loading up uninstallable software ) UNTIL they were forced to allow the end user to uninstall it WITHOUT VOIDING THEIR WARRANTY. Others keep saying "Google is your friend" but that route still forces me to void my warranty(Not viable to most people and really shouldn't be necessary). Oh, I did pay full retail price for my device so grousing is my right(if you don't like that you can stop complaining too). Hope someday an AG office hears enough complaining to "look into" this matter and while their at it look at the exorbitant text messaging charges versus actual cost to provide.

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It's the same thing as commercials on TV. That's how Verizon and Motorola get money.

Also, the result Google will give you will NOT void your warranty, as it IS reversable. Everyone really needs to do their research on this. There is a solid fix for this, that DOESN'T void your warranty if you know how to do it, and if you really don't want to do it, then stop complaining because that's a solution - that's what you wanted, a way to take them off.

Why would I give a rat's behind if you paid full retail for your phone or not? You still bought it from Verizon, it's still made by Motorola, and you still pay Verizon monthly to use it. The fact that you spent more money on it than you needed to is your own fault.

[AZSALUKI]

what apps? i can't seem to find any of these on my phone?  

[DroidM]

The bloat where on my first Moto Droid realy did nto bother me it was a few APs and a few I actualy used. On My T-Bolt and even my Wifes Droid 2 Global thou I was shocked buy how many usles APs came with the Phoen and how only one of them gave me a way to get rid of it. I dont' mind the Boat where so much as long as it's resonable. As somebudy mentioned it's a way for them to make money. I do have a problem with the VZW Aps that wher forced on my phoen APs that I will honestly nver use and VZW can't be making any money on these as they own them. Useful as they may be I realy my self dont' need them so give me the option to get rid of them. Also ther shoudl eb a time limit on the Bloat wear for exampel maby once we get a New OS Update the Aps they came witht he phoen can be removed to make room for the New Aps that are forced on us. The Rate These Bloat wher APs are going Imnot shore how much room Ill have left. Ther has to be a resonable Compromise hear.

[Elitist_Jerk]

YAH.. and take down all the billboards, and stop showing commericals!! Take down all signs everywhere!!

[RobB772]

If end users had not complained about Microsoft and PC makers loading up PC's with unwanted, uninstallable software "trials" and whatnot it might still be the norm there too. If they get enough guff for this practice Carriers and handset manufacturers will also give the option to uninstall these unnecessary, unwanted, resource using apps.

As for commercials, they don't reside on your TV and use resources you may want/need(?) to watch a program you want, they're transient. Also the US Congress passed the C.A.L.M. Act and the FCC will be cracklng down on those who make commercials perceived louder than the program. Even though they ( the commercial makers / advertisers) argued that they weren't actually any louder than the loudest point of the program, it was just all of the commercial was at that peak level. FCC has until  Dec 15th of this year to issue a Report and Order adopting the rules implementing the CALM act. I guess complaining does work!

Remember, if you sit back and accept the practice it will never change and most likely will get worse.

If ya always do what ya always did, ya always get what ya always got. (status quo)

[AZSALUKI]

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RobB772 wrote:

If end users had not complained about Microsoft and PC makers loading up PC's with unwanted, uninstallable software "trials" and whatnot it might still be the norm there too. If they get enough guff for this practice Carriers and handset manufacturers will also give the option to uninstall these unnecessary, unwanted, resource using apps.

As for commercials, they don't reside on your TV and use resources you may want/need(?) to watch a program you want, they're transient. Also the US Congress passed the C.A.L.M. Act and the FCC will be cracklng down on those who make commercials perceived louder than the program. Even though they ( the commercial makers / advertisers) argued that they weren't actually any louder than the loudest point of the program, it was just all of the commercial was at that peak level. FCC has until  Dec 15th of this year to issue a Report and Order adopting the rules implementing the CALM act. I guess complaining does work!

Remember, if you sit back and accept the practice it will never change and most likely will get worse.

If ya always do what ya always did, ya always get what ya always got. (status quo)

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i'm not trying to be contrary here...and i understand the bloat frustration everyone has.....but this statement isn't true. i pay for cable and dvr service. i dvr nearly everything i care to watch and then watch at some time. my box holds X amount of hours and about 25% of that space is taken up by commercials. there's no way to set it to ONLY record the actual content of the program i want to watch. often i have to delete content that i haven't even had a chance to watch yet, in order to record something i really want to see. seriously.....about 25% of the service i pay for is absolutely useless.....and there's nothing i can do about it. if i am paying for a box with limited memory and the dvr service, then shouldn't i have the option of removing comercials to free up space?

[RobB772]

The only flaw in that analogy is that you are allowed to erase the dvr and the commercials get erased too. With the thunderbolt every time the update gets pushed it has been adding to the bloatware. That finite internal memory gets smaller each time. You'd be bitching more if you lost space everytime because old commercials , you have no intention of watching, never could be removed and new ones you're not gonna watch get added.

[RobB772]

Sorry forgot to add that erasing your dvr doesn't void the warranty.

[AZSALUKI]

true, but my point is that ads are forced on us everywhere....and they do utilize resources in other areas, besides smart phones. i can't get the cable content that i pay to dvr, without "downloading" the ads. and when i need to free up space, i can't JUST erase the ads. i have to erase the entire program...that i paid to dvr. so while erasing ads from a cable box may not void a warranty, at least i have the option of erasing bloat on my tbolt, without erasing critical files, even if it voids the warranty. i have no such options with my cable box. if i need space and want to erase, then i HAVE TO erase the program along with the ads. i'd say my cable box is more absurd than my tbolt......lol. 

[RobB772]

You're trying to compare apples and oranges. You are obviously dvring commercial tv because premium programs don't contain commercials. Your dvring would be including the same commercials had you been recording free ota signals. Time shifting of viewing time or recording programs not carried by your local area still get you the commercials carried by the free ota transmission. More to the point you are paying for a dvr to record the signals and that is what its doing. It's not adding commercials to the program you dvr, and they get erased when you do that function. If you record a premium program your dvr doesn't insert commercials, you get only the program you want. All this and never a warranty question. If you choose to erase a program it doesn't reinstall those unwanted commercials in addition to the new ones contained in your new recording.

[AZSALUKI]

90% of tv is commercial tv. i don't know what's considered "premium" (that you keep refering to). what i do know is that if i wnat more than abc, cbs, nbc, and fox, then i have to pay a cable company for the rest of my channels. i choose to use their box for dvr and hd capabilites. one of the things i pay for is the ability to record. the box i pay for has limited resources. they FORCE content onto my box by not allowing me to record w/o commercials. you can blame it on the networks if you'd like, but since the box can figure out when programs start and stop (and even figure out to continue recording when a program, like a football game, goes over), then it can figure out when ads are running. they don't however, allow me to domwload the shows without those ads. it's not that different. i know it's not exactly the same.....it's just an example of where i pay a company for a limited resource and they dictate what's on that resource. i get your point, but then shouldn't the cable company advertise "30 hours of recording (unless you're recording content that contains advertisements, in which case you can only really record approximately 24 hours)"?

you all can go and organize (i'd be happy to sign any complaint, petition, etc), alter your phones, or accept it for now. but starting the 10,000,000 thread on this matter does no good. 

[Wildman]

Lets express it correctly, no matter what is done there will always be complaints because a users thinks things should be different...  This world have got so many blind to the reality of the worlds, they think the world revolve on their views of things...   All companies are in business to make money and they either have to get it completly from customers pockets or work the extra funds with marketing and advertising..

Even nonprofit organization have to make money to servive and function..

[RobB772]

From some of the responses defending this practice I'll bet if we went back to pc's loaded to the gills with uninstallable software trials and other things Microsoft deemed you "wanted" and you were stuck with windows95 they'd still take the "oh well that's the way it is" stance. (I bet not :-P)

[Synycalwon]

While I'm NOT a fan of this bloatware, I'd have to say that it has NEVER caused any type of problem what-so-ever with the operation of my Thunderbolt. In fact, many of the installed bloatware apps are actually just shortcuts that take you to where you have to download the full app to even use it. Other apps never run unless you launch them. The few that do run something in the background use a minute amount of memory (approx. 10MB from my count) and thus would have little if any negative effect on the phone. With that said, I do agree we need to voice our displeasure with this bloatware, but a peer to peer forum isn't the way to do it. Many, many people need to contact Verizon via direct channels (ex. phone, e-mail, etc.) for this point to even get any traction.

[AZSALUKI]

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Synycalwon wrote:

While I'm NOT a fan of this bloatware, I'd have to say that it has NEVER caused any type of problem what-so-ever with the operation of my Thunderbolt. In fact, many of the installed bloatware apps are actually just shortcuts that take you to where you have to download the full app to even use it. Other apps never run unless you launch them. The few that do run something in the background use a minute amount of memory (approx. 10MB from my count) and thus would have little if any negative effect on the phone. With that said, I do agree we need to voice our displeasure with this bloatware, but a peer to peer forum isn't the way to do it. Many, many people need to contact Verizon via direct channels (ex. phone, e-mail, etc.) for this point to even get any traction.

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exactly. that's all i'm saying. i'm not defending them. i was simply pointing out that similar advertising is FORCED on us in other aspects of our lives. i was also trying to explain that starting yet another thread in the help forums is not going to do any good as there is NO WAY to resolve this issue here. the topic has been beaten to death for a couple of years and i doubt that most of those who feel the need to start a thread, simply to complain, ever actually voice their complaint to verizon.....much  less take any real action.

[RobB772]

Well as I see it every one of these threads show up when doing an internet search on bloatware so that brings the practice to the limelight where it isn’t silently tolerated.

 I myself have already contacted and voiced my displeasure to  HTC, Verizon (got the finger pointed at the other in each case), my local congressperson, my US senator (both), my state AG, my state Consumer Affairs Office  and the FTC. This may be frivolous to some but I think unless complaints are voiced (in any forum) it is being tacitly accepted and encouraged to continue.