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My rant which only serves to release some of my own frustration.

I am finding that posting to this or HTC's forum is really just an exercise in futility.

Both companies (Verizon and HTC) know the Thunderbolt is plagued with "glitches" and problems that CUSTOMERS shouldn't be suffering this long with.

Long time posters, whether they believe it or not, off times spout the company line, defend the propagation of problems update release after update release, or say root or just stop complaining nobody wants to hear your whining about what you should have known about if YOU did any research. All of these options put the onus on the CUSTOMER and not where it belongs, with the Manufacturer and Carrier. (Just hanging out on a forum racking up numbers of posts doesn’t make you a subject matter expert or make the new poster a Rube)

Taking an "ostrich approach" ("we never heard of that problem before") seems to be both companies first course of action. Their second course is to blame the CUSTOMER for utilizing the phone as it was marketed (using android market apps instead of the preferred Verizon or HTC preloaded bloatware. Bloatware which by the way seems to grow with each update). And their ongoing course seems to be ignoring a large portion of their paying CUSTOMERS who purchased Thunderbolts or see how many hoops they can get the CUSTOMER to jump through (remove all downloaded apps , factory reset) before they shut up and stop expecting an expensive device to perform as marketed.

I've read posters say early adopters should expect problems....OK, but shouldn't they also expect timely resolution to those problems?

I read other posters say root and you'll magically see all your concerns (problems) disappear....except that if you "brick" your device or have some "unforeseen" complication its Y.O.Y.O (you're on your own as far as Verizon and HTC and you potentially own a very expensive paperweight).

Wouldn’t it be a better long term business model to attempt to make early adopters of technology you are pursuing as your future feel like they’re not just suckers who bought into a promise that won’t be delivered, at least not to them?

Comments

Ambushbug

I agree with most of what you say, the problem is one of your first sentences. "I am finding that posting to this or HTC's forum is really just an exercise in futility.". Both HTC and Verizon say they do not offer tech support or advice on their forums, they are peer to peer, and you can always count on a lot of the "peers" being useless.

RobB772

That might be the case on HTC's forum but if you look on this one you'll see numerous *_VZW posters.

AZSALUKI

Most forum members will try to troubleshoot miscellaneous problems, but at some point there's really nothing to be done except exchange it. If you have a defective device there's not much that a Verizon rep or forum member can do. You can wait for updates, tweak it, or have it replaced. It blows that some people have so many problems with a new device......but if I did I would have it replaced.....and if the replacement was bad I would get a different model (well I would actually tweak the OS....but if I didn't want to do that I would get a different model).

B33

Ambushbug Wrote :

I agree with most of what you say, the problem is one of your first sentences. "I am finding that posting to this or HTC's forum is really just an exercise in futility.". Both HTC I Would Defiently say a yes on this But Verizon they to me helped me more than anyone i was on the phone with a T3 teck for 3 Hours but He Solved the Problem that was Plaguing the ( incredible ) when it first came out that no one could solve an i replaced 2 of them. He seen the issue on the incredible that he was carrying an the incredibles his co-workers were carrying at that Time an he issued a Trouble Ticket an sent it to HTC an they fixed the issue with an update ! say they do not offer tech support or advice on their forums, they are peer to peer, and you can always count on a lot of the "peers" being useless.

I understand your upset but we do sometimes need to credit to the one's that do Help us to solve our Issues. when they can. Ra

keezy

RobB772 wrote:
I am finding that posting to this or HTC's forum is really just an exercise in futility.
Both companies (Verizon and HTC) know the Thunderbolt is plagued with "glitches" and problems that CUSTOMERS shouldn't be suffering this long with.
Long time posters, whether they believe it or not, off times spout the company line, defend the propagation of problems update release after update release, or say root or just stop complaining nobody wants to hear your whining about what you should have known about if YOU did any research. All of these options put the onus on the CUSTOMER and not where it belongs, with the Manufacturer and Carrier. (Just hanging out on a forum racking up numbers of posts doesn’t make you a subject matter expert or make the new poster a Rube)
Taking an "ostrich approach" ("we never heard of that problem before") seems to be both companies first course of action. Their second course is to blame the CUSTOMER for utilizing the phone as it was marketed (using android market apps instead of the preferred Verizon or HTC preloaded bloatware. Bloatware which by the way seems to grow with each update). And their ongoing course seems to be ignoring a large portion of their paying CUSTOMERS who purchased Thunderbolts or see how many hoops they can get the CUSTOMER to jump through (remove all downloaded apps , factory reset) before they shut up and stop expecting an expensive device to perform as marketed.
I've read posters say early adopters should expect problems....OK, but shouldn't they also expect timely resolution to those problems?
I read other posters say root and you'll magically see all your concerns (problems) disappear....except that if you "brick" your device or have some "unforeseen" complication its Y.O.Y.O (you're on your own as far as Verizon and HTC and you potentially own a very expensive paperweight).
Wouldn’t it be a better long term business model to attempt to make early adopters of technology you are pursuing as your future feel like they’re not just suckers who bought into a promise that won’t be delivered, at least not to them?

I agree with this. There are some comments you've made that I'd like to touch on, but it's a violation of this forum for me to go into detail, so I'll refrain I suppose :smileyindifferent:

All I'll say is your paragraph about "r-wording" isn't exactly all true.

BUT, to touch on some other subjects you've mentioned - It's true that Verizon takes the "ostrich" approach when you go in with problems with your device. I think that's mainly because they aren't supposed to be speaking negatively about their products outright to a customer. I mean, if you go in with an issue and they say "Oh, yeah, we've had loads of reports on this. My phone has this problem too" you're going to think they knowingly sold you a bad phone (whether or not they did)

A lot of long-time posters on here will default to app problems with issues, because frankly, a lot of the time it is. The apps in the Android Market are open to EVERYONE (meaning ANYONE can make an app and put it on the market) that's why there are so many bad apps that cause issues for phones. Not everyone knows what they're doing when making an app, and some want to purposely brick peoples' phones. A lot of the issues such as random shutting down, lagging, random music playing, and things like that ARE app-caused. I've experienced all of these because of bad apps, and have fixed all of them by finding the app and removing it.

droidsw

RobB772, I told my friend that has a TB about your post. Forwarded him the link. He refuses to post anymore. He, like me, is fed up with troubleshooting, anymore.

Resets, clearing cache, formatting SD card, rebooting in Safe Mode. Exercises of futility and wastes of time.

This was his email reply, posted with his permission:

I really don't want to go through all of that with the resetting and the "Is it an app" question. It's not an app. I have only added a few apps since I got this phone. The same apps I have used on every smartphone I have had.

I have the music player Power Amp. I got a password keeper which is very cool and doesn't have any permissions... not a one, so I know that can't be messing with anything. Really not much has been added to my phone.

I had this thought hit me when I was messing with the market last night. I came across something called Juice Defender. It's some battery saver app that cuts apps and processes off when you aren't using your phone. Like the connection to the internet and wifi and all that stuff.

It seems like it would help the battery to some degree. And the comments seem to say that it does what it is supposed to do. I got mad though. I can't understand what went so wrong with the Android system, that they would actually have to make apps turn important stuff off just so your phone's battery will last longer.

I got mad thinking about the 50 bucks I spent on the extended battery and all the other money I have thrown into this phone. The whole time, I was thinking that the iPhone doesn't have or NEED any of this. You buy an iPhone and you have a great machine. It may not be the best phone in the world when it comes to making calls (the whole point of having a phone really), but it works no matter what.

It has a couple issues, and they have to use iTunes for so much. But really, that phone has it all. I know this is completely opposite of what I have been saying forever, but you know what I'm saying.

Updates... not a problem for the iPhone. Music playing... not a problem for the iPhone. Battery lasting... not a problem for the iPhone. A lot of apps that will ALWAYS work for your phone... not a problem with the iPhone. Worldwide support for everything that is made... not a problem for the iPhone. (Everyone makes software and apps for the iPhone while the Android system gets left behind)

I know that the Android system creates a bunch of problems for developers since they have to make things work for a million different Android Phones. But... wouldn't it be nice to have something that works? Something that won't fail you at almost every turn?

I really hate that I have become so ANTI ANDROID lately. This Thunderbolt has taken one of Android's biggest fans and turned them into one of Apple's biggest fans.

I can't hate on Apple for making that phone. They paved the way and created something that NO ONE has (and maybe even CAN) match and I can't get angry about them having everything for their precious little phone.

I'm the idiot who went around telling everyone that they were stupid for going with an iPhone. For calling everyone a loser. Even though I stand by my words about a majority of iPhone users being (edited)... I can't stand by my words about Android passing iOS anymore.

Like I read about a few weeks ago, Google has stopped caring about their system. They made it to make money right then and there. Now, the people make the phone and pay Google a little money for using the name. The rest is up to them, to do what they want to.

They can treat the phones however they want. They can avoid giving updates all the way, regardless of what they said it would get. And they can keep pushing out the "next big phone" because they know that people like me (they way I used to be) will continue to buy them so they can have the newest software version.... I was so stupid!

Do I like my phone... NO! Do I wish I could go back in time and get that iPhone….. yes I do! I thought that Google would support their platform far better than they have. I hate that they aren't. But I can't... and no one else can, help it.

I would like to go buy an iPhone and sell this Thunderbolt. I will take a huge hit on the money I try to get for it, because I can't sell it to someone and tell them how great it is.

Like I said before, if I can email, text, and make phone calls, I will be happy with a phone. This one has been good for the most part for all of that, so I won't break the bank trying to hurry and buy an iPhone.

But I will probably end up with an iPhone so I won't have to worry about the problems anymore. No more battery issues…. no more waiting for the promised update... Nothing! I will get the things that are promised because Apple, unlike Google, is trying to make money on their product. They sell their product... so they care about it.

But I really am unhappy with this phone. I won't go back to supporting the Android phones. This is my last one. 

RobB772

My wife has an iPhone purchased the same day I got my Tbolt. Only plusses are 4G (when its working even though I'm in an initial 4G rollout city) and simultaneously able to talk & surf. She loves the simple elegance of hers never a problem since day one.

droidsw

I will be monitoring the Bionic and the next gen iphone and make that decision when the time comes. In the meantime, I am also completely dissolutioned with the android experience and glad I waited instead of getting a TB.

droidsw

AZSALUKI, you were probably addressing the OP, but I could have written your reply a few weeks ago, before GB (on Droid X).

The is the second update that I consider a failure and no matter if the "majority" of people haven't had issues, the thousands of posts in this and the Moto forums makes me beg to differ.

Whether it is Blurr, bloatware, apps, whatever, updates are a problem for these phones. Had GB not been released, I would still be a very happy camper.

The subjects of battery life, rebooting, chasing rogue apps, 3G connectivity, camera and camcorder issues, lock-ups, battery pulls, factory resets, etc., just CAN'T be the issue(s) with iphones in any way in proportion that they are with android.

I will do my research. Maybe, it will prove me wrong. I was wrong before, thinking my phone choice the last time was a wise one.

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