why is everyone accepting factory reset as a solution?

[SFObrien]

As a solution for what?  How about including what problem you are having?

[jjbpj]

We'll see if I can post here and actually have text now that I have switched browsers.

I am asking why people are accepting factory reset as an acceptable solution to any of the problems caused by the 2.2 OS upgrade to the fascinate.

My camera isn't working.

Others have had GPS issues, issues with caching in google calendar, etc.

Many people are accepting "do a factory reset" as the solution.

I am not going to do a factory reset to get my camera working.  I have never done anything to my phone that would void my warranty.  If verizon took this long to approve an upgrade and so many people are having issues, them shame on them.  Why would we need to un-do months of customization in order to get our STOCK camera working on APPROVED software?

I don't buy this factory reset.  Verizon, find a way to get our phones working the way they should with the software you gave us, without making us trash our phones to do so.

[SFObrien]

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jjbpj wrote:

My camera isn't working.

Let me see if I can help with this issue, exactly what problem are you having and are you getting any kind of message when trying to use it?

[TBhouston]

Software has problems. You have thousands of apps, over time things can get corrupt.

Hardrest fixes about 95% of the problems people have with droids (hint: apps)

Sorry you had to re do your angry birds levels

[jjbpj]

TBhouston: Software does indeed have problems, and those problems should not effect the operating system, nor other pieces of software, even if they use the same hardware.  I used to code for an OS, and if an application allowed something that *I* wrote to take down a part of the OS or another APP, I'd be spending 20 hour days working on it until it was fixed - not out of altruism.

The reactionson this and other forums make me think that people don't remember that Android is a Linux variant; it's supposed to be extremely stable, and this hack job, no matter how delayed, is not acceptable!  The last time I did a re-format of my Linux machine was back when Debian Lenny came out, about 3 years ago - and that was a re-format from the Windows Vista that came pre-installed on the laptop.  I have added and removed multiple apps and allowed multiple kernel upgrades over the past three years, and none of them have ever caused hardware to stop working or screwed up applications.

SFFOBrien: The actual problem that I am experiencing is the "Please wait..." hang on my camera - once again, stock software that directly deals with the stock hardware.  I never went to Froyo "illicitly" and I never  rooted.  You don't get more simple than that.

Ann154: it's great that you have a checklist to follow and are willing to do a factory reset.  I am not.  I'm going to be a bug in customer service's ear until this is resolved with an actual fix, not a "Let's pretend this is Windows and nuke the whole darn thing" cave-in.  I hope more customers do the same.  (I notice that link is from September that you gave - you'd think that in the nearly 7 months of time between the Droid X upgrade and this release they'd have figured out how to make the upgrade complete or how to release post-upgrade fixes.)

[Smokie11]

In regards to the merits pro and con of a Factory Data Reset, while it's true that it has been mentioned a lot, I don't question that it has helped some people, but it is a POOR solution and I believe it has helped for the wrong reason. With an open source OS and 3rd party apps. you are always subject to problems and glitches that affect how the offending app. interacts with OS.

The camera is a piece of hardware that is controlled directly by the OS, even if you have downloaded an app. that offers more choices to what you can do with a picture your camera took and you experience a problem, you should be able to remove the offending app. and restore your camera to original specs, without a Factory Reset.

I do not write code and I do not consider myself anything close to an expert in this area but I have what you may call 20 years life experience working in the field of how software and hardware are integrated to achieve desired results. I can tell you from experience that Samsung does not have a good record in this area, they are far better at creating excellent hardware than they are in creating the software that controls it.

My phone was already replaced AFTER a factory reset did nothing to help me install Froyo, my wife's phone also will not accept Froyo install and I am sure it will need replacement. One other area we have not discussed yet is that the Android OS is starting to come under attack from hackers and viruses. There already exists a list of known apps. with malicious code and viruses that supposedly Google has removed from the market, however there is no way today to 100% protect your phone, just like there is no way to 100% protect your computer.

[Jax_Omen]

The camera is a piece of hardware that is controlled by an APP, which is controlled by the OS.

The OS (also known as the kernel) is fairly rock solid even after an OS (again upgrade), the apps, which encompass EVERYTHING you actually see and interact with, are what have problems due to pre-existing user data.

I think the problem is you're thinking of OS in the Windows sense, where the user interface is part of the OS. Think of an OS upgrade on Android as not just updating the kernel (OS), but also updating a TON of software on the phone all at once: all software is prone to unpredictable bugs when the software is updated without wiping user data beforehand. Such is the nature of software.

When you realize that the camera, the touchwiz launcher, and every other framework that makes the phone work, above and beyond the OS itself, is an application in need of updating, needing to do a factory reset after a major software upgrade doesn't sound so unreasonable. Do you expect to migrate from Ubuntu 9 to Ubuntu 10 without having any hiccups? Of course not. You migrate and either live with the hiccups or wipe clean and restart.

[jjbpj]

@ Jax: The OS does not control the application.  The application interfaces with the kernel layer through APIs. The user "controls" the APP which makes calls to the kernel interfaces through libraries that ride along with the kernel.  The kernel, along with the hardware interface layer and the application layer make up the "OS."

If an "OS" is brought forward to a new level, including kernel, libs, and applications, then fine, do it.  Internals change and APIs remain mostly the same and are almost always backward compatible.  I believe this is the case in the 2.1 to 2.2 upgrade.  I also believe that due to an error in the delivery, the camera app has been broken in a very particular way on many phones.

It's atrocious that people in here believe that basically reformatting to the bare OS is a good way to get around an application that does not work after an update.  THAT is WIndows95 think, where formatting C: every 6 months or so was necessary to get rid of all of the garbage buildup.  That is NOT how things work in Unix or Linux.  If an upgrade breaks something, a patch is created and applied.  THis is not a band aid on top of an error, it is replacement code that fixes the error.

The claims in this and other threads that leftover garbage from old apps and that currently installed apps have been causing problems with an upgrade are absolutely bogus.  That doesn't happen.  If an application is crap, then it will fail to work after a good upgrade.  It will not prevent an upgrade to happen, and it will not break other apps just through the mere fact of being installed (trying to run two applications that try to take over the hardware, on the other hand, is a possibility, but the hardware interface layer should prevent that).

As for linux distro upgrades, 1) I wouldn't put Ubuntu on my dining room table, let alone one of my computers, and 2) when I move forward to the next version of Debian, it will either be on new hardware, or I will manage the upgrade and work through bugs as workarounds arise.  I have root on my laptops, because I am the admin.  I do not have it on my phone because it would void my warranty.

That's really the big deal here, isn't it?  I have come to the conclusion, through following some tips on other thhreads that complain of the camera "Please wait..." hang, and I am convinced that the problem is exactly in the Camera app itself.  I have been able to install other camera "hack" applications that use the camera and take pictures to teh extend that their coding allows.  The firmware is working just fine and the hardware layer makes things go through other applications making the right calls.

Now, if I had rooted my phone, I could download Camera.apk and re-install the camera app.  But I haven't rooted, and since the camera app is "stock," I can't re-install it, or uninstall it, or patch it, or anything.  That would be up to Verizon to do.  It would sure be a lot nicer a solution that to have me reformat my device as if I were back in grad school trying to get two pieces of hardware to quit fighting over an IRQ.  Doing so because I can't install one single piece of software is the proverbial killing a gnat with a sledgehammer.  It's a kluge, it's a hack, and it's lame.  I still have no idea at all why so many Android fanpeople are so adamant that this is a good idea, it almost feels like I am on an ipad forum.

Anyhow - if I find a fix, I will post it here.  For those who disagree with me, go ahead and format C: every 6 months. I miss the 90's too, but not that much.

[TBhouston]

Sounds like you should go with a blackberry

or deal with the fact droid OS is weak and will often require a hardreset to fix common issues

Angry birds will be just as fun the second time around.. since in reality this is all you lose

[jjbpj]

Some more information this morning:

I am really and truly amazeded by the lack of research folks here are doing before responding to this thread. I read up on apps that some of you have mentioned and on ones that I have installed, and here's what I found:

1) If all I cared about in life were Angry Birds, there is apparently a fix for that, called Angry Cheaters, that will back up game data.

2) I bought EA NFS on my phone when I bought it last fall.  I read up on that and if I do a factory reset, I WILL LOSE THE REGISTERED GAME.  The game is no longer on the market, and guess what - like the camera it's pre-installed.  I can't re-install it from an image somewhere.  it gets better.  I paid $4.99 for the game last fall.  If I want to reset and re-buy, it's $9.99 now.  Look it up.

Please do a little reasearch before telling people to do something that will cost them money.

3) Puzzlebox, one of my daughter's favorite aplications, is no longer available on the android market.  If I reset, no more of teh game she requests from me while we wait at appointments.

4) There are at least two or three other apps that I have that are no longer on the marketplace.  (So now I expect people to tell me that I shouldn't have those apps anyway, and that they're what broke my camera.  FIRST!!!!! :/)

Please do a little research before smugly telling people that they are being unreasonable (get a blackberry, really?  and he didn't get kudos for that post?) and that they won't lose anything at all.  Sitting in here and spouting out "get a blackberry" and poorly informed discussion about why a patch is impossible and that people should just reset is exactly why I was so fed up that I began this thread in the first place.  Most people on the internet forums anywhere know enough to be dangerous, and will parrot anything that works for them.  THis thread is exhibit A.

FACTORY RESET IS NOT A VALID SOLUTION FOR EVERYONE.

[PJNC284]

Have you tried clearing the camera data (Settings-Applications-Manage Applications-All-Camera, Clear data)?  Also for apps no longer in the market, you can use a free app like Astro to backup the app.  It won't restore data or market links (irrelevant in your case) granted there are ways to do so.

[nickjr]

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PJNC284 wrote:

Have you tried clearing the camera data (Settings-Applications-Manage Applications-All-Camera, Clear data)?  Also for apps no longer in the market, you can use a free app like Astro to backup the app.  It won't restore data or market links (irrelevant in your case) granted there are ways to do so.

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I I agree wholeheartedly everyone should back up their apps, especially now since everyone, or most everyone should have 2.2 on their phone which enables backing up apps to their sd card, and using a free program called astsro file manager is a decent app, but I found one better that is free and no ads, File Expert.

[jjbpj]

Thank you PJNC for the reply.  I did try and clear camera cache, etc, but all options are grayed out - I can't do anything with teh camera at all.  I am considering purchasing Camera Zoom FX or VIgnette - need to see which one would be best for what I want to do, and it's cheaper than buying the $9.99 NFS replacement!

psjjh - I do recommend talking to Verizon customer service, in a store if possible.  If you have not tried shutting it down and pulling the battery, that might be a first step.  Also, I had a problem initially with the 2.1 level google search engine.  It caused a lot of error messages and I couldn't get anything done.  If you had ever used that, it would be time to consider getting rid of that, as the upgrade replaces it (so there's now an active conflict for people who had the old one).  If icons are sitting atop one another, it could be that your launcher app was corrupted somehow.  If that is the case, I hope you are using something other than TWLauncher!  Deactivating a third party launcher could ease some of those issues, if that is the case.

Shutting down and pulling the battery has also helped some people overcome their issues.

If none of that works, they may eventually recommend the factory reset.  If the phone is absolutely unusable, it might be the only way to go so you can use it at all.  They may know, however, these several days after the release, about some of your problems and be able to give youa hand in fixing the issues without doing a reset.  Wouldn't that just be unthinkable?!?!? 😕

If it comes to a reset, let them talk to you about it, and if it works for you once you have more information, go for it.  Make sure you are aware of the problem there will be with the possibility of losing apps (even paid ones) that are no longer on the market. 

Hoping this reply helps.  Some others on this thread are about as useful as a readhead on Mythbusters....

[Jax_Omen]

Kari Byron is an essential mythbuster... rule 34 on Mythbusters would be a horrible place without her!

[psjjh]

I am seriously considering some sort of reset because since the 2.2 upgrade, everything on my phone is jacked-up. The touch screen takes forever to call up an application....the applications layer on top of each other....and on....and on....

I am very much a novice and I'm scared to do a factory reset because I would have no idea how to backup and reload and whatever else I'd have to do just to get my phone working the way it did before the 2.2 happened on April 20.

HELP>>>>>WHAT SHOULD I DO???

Distressed Facinate User

[nickjr]

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psjjh wrote:

I am seriously considering some sort of reset because since the 2.2 upgrade, everything on my phone is jacked-up. The touch screen takes forever to call up an application....the applications layer on top of each other....and on....and on....

I am very much a novice and I'm scared to do a factory reset because I would have no idea how to backup and reload and whatever else I'd have to do just to get my phone working the way it did before the 2.2 happened on April 20.

HELP>>>>>WHAT SHOULD I DO???

Distressed Facinate User

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I would visit a Verizon store and ask nicely for customer service, explain your situation and allow them to assist you in doing a factory reset, ask any question and they should assist you. If not I would then ask for the manager of the store to help you, Iam sure then you will receive some sort of action

[RoyB_VZW]

psjjh, if you are still in need of assistance with a factory reset, please feel free to PM me with an alternate contact number and a good time to reach you, and I will be happy to assist further. 

Thanks, 

[TBhouston]

And if you get a replacement device all the same things apply.. you're great point is pointless

[annoni]

from personal experience I can say that software interaction causes a surprising amount of problems people experience with android phones. I have seen phones that acted as though the headphone jack was bad when playing music, but worked fine on phone calls. suspecting s/w interaction, we wiped the handset and the jack worked fine for music and phone calls. problem solved. I've seen phones that flipped screens, even sent txt msgs at random and turned themselves off in the middle of calls work fine after the reset.

It is critical to not load the same set of software right back onto the handset because that will likely recreate the software interaction.

You obviously have a technical background, possibly even knowing more about OS's than most on the forum. It is important to note that apple doesn't have as many issues w/software interactions, but has fewer free apps.

[Tidbits]

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annoni wrote:

from personal experience I can say that software interaction causes a surprising amount of problems people experience with android phones. I have seen phones that acted as though the headphone jack was bad when playing music, but worked fine on phone calls. suspecting s/w interaction, we wiped the handset and the jack worked fine for music and phone calls. problem solved. I've seen phones that flipped screens, even sent txt msgs at random and turned themselves off in the middle of calls work fine after the reset.

It is critical to not load the same set of software right back onto the handset because that will likely recreate the software interaction.

You obviously have a technical background, possibly even knowing more about OS's than most on the forum. It is important to note that apple doesn't have as many issues w/software interactions, but has fewer free apps.

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Actually they do, but most of the time people who own them overlook them.  I know what bugs are on my Verizon iPhone which are present on the AT&T version as well as its own set of bugs.  Eventually they'll be fixed and are really minor bugs.

The biggest difference between iOS and Android is...  Apple have a Dev program and release beta versions.  A lot of devs know how to properly send in bugging reports.  This actually helps a lot.  Android has no dev program and is released, and in turn every device is different and every manufacturer is different.  Each device has it's own set of problems associated with the OS.  GSM devices fair better in general for Android as the code is natively written for GSM.  CDMA devices a lot of the code has to be modified in order to make it work more efficiently.

I wish Google would actually start a dev program outside of releasing their "next" version with out the program before-hand.  Let devs work with it, and find bugs before releasing code and expecting everything to be all peachy.  If manufacturers can't fix it or modify it better then at least outside devs can help Google do it.

The text bug Android has can be found since 1.X and hasn't really been fixed and randomly people will have it regardless of devices.  I have had it happen to my G1, my Nexus One, Droid Incredible.  Hasn't happened to my Droid 2 and the thunderbolt as of yet.