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The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

"We welcome your complaints and concerns. Please use the www.fcc.gov/complaints Website as this is the most expedient way to file a complaint. After doing so, we will assign an FCC Agent to your complaint. It is the goal of the FCC Agent to work with Verizon to establish some kind of resolution."

And so went my conversation with the FCC today regarding these "irregular", "illegal", "useless", "annoying" and other such-defined complaints that we have all been told "aren't worth filing".

The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents. The FCC Agent then contacts Verizon to try to find a solution - then brings the customer into the loop to see that either (A) the problem is solved, or (B) the customer decides to escalate because they do not feel that the problem is solved.

"Escalate" was a fresh option so I asked my Rep to explain. I was told that if you are not satisfied with what the Verizon Rep tells you during their call, that you can contact the FCC and ask for a Mediation Specialist to step in. This request must be made in writing, must include your complaint number, and must be sent via mail or fax. A request for mediation is an aggressive step, therefore the FCC can no longer receive electronic correspondence regarding the complaint. This sounded extremely "official" - making the request in writing, etc. - but a legitimate option nonetheless as complaints in the past have gone nowhere with Verizon.

My FCC Rep was eager to know what my concerns with Verizon were and confirmed that they were legitimate complaints. She also said that since the Verizon Customer Contract could come into play during mediation, that they always suggest that the consumer's State Attorney's Office receives communication about the complaint as well. I was told that the State Attorney's Office would take a serious look at the complaint - especially after seeing that I took the time to go through the FCC complaint process and that I am asking for mediation.

I planned on going to the State Attorney's Office with a pile of paperwork after this round of complaints, but the whole idea about FCC mediation may accomplish the goal of getting someone to pay attention at Verizon. It may accomplish something simple like a documented public update schedule for Windows Phones from Verizon (as has been discussed out here in the past), or it may be something big like a resolution that involves Microsoft working more closely with Verizon to participate in pre-release testing programs.

Do you have your 8.1 Cyan Update yet? Do you have a better plan to promote you getting your update (or future updates) faster? If you answered "no" to both, then please join me by filing your complaint. Feel free to ask for mediation when Verizon calls to ask how things are going and by all means, be sure to let your State Attorney's Office know as well. No one is looking to sue anyone. No one is looking for fees or fines. There is nothing illegal happening here that we are the whistleblowers on. Just looking for a change that benefits the paying customer when it comes to updating our Windows Phone devices. Please join me.

FCC Consumer Line: 1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX: 1- 866-418-0232

FCC Complaints: File Complaint | FCC.gov

State Attorney's Offices throughout the US: NAAG | Current Attorneys General

Comments

47seijar

Dude, you've been grinding on this issue for weeks!! Why don't you just get it over with and buy an iPhone? At least you'll get your updates when everybody else gets them - no involvement from Verizon. C'mon, you KNOW you want an iPhone. It's ok to admit it. You're among friends.

MadDogFL62

47seijar: Words of wisdom from a Nokia ICON owner. Why don't you tell us why YOU own an iPhone and ICON?

Aren't you glad you spent all that money on your ICON and now it's not getting an update? You must love the ICON because "something about it" drove you to pay twice what you did for your iPhone! I am empathetic. I know that this whole "no 8.1 Cyan" issue is killing you because you spend so much time out here trying to find out a release date.

Rumors are - Cyan hits the week of August 18th. But you know how rumors are - you're an Apple owner too!

PS: I do like the Verizon Forum Avatar update, too! The Rainbow Apple just wasn't you. And we're a lot more friendly out here on the Windows Phone Forum!

47seijar

I'm sure that I WILL get the Cyan update, and fairly soon too. I'd rather Verizon take their time and get it right than push out some half-baked update that causes problems and potentially hoses my Icon. My Icon works great right now. What's the rush with this update anyway?

How about my new BlackBerry avatar? BlackBerry was my first love, and if Verizon gets the BlackBerry Passport I may go back. 10+ years with BlackBerrys makes it a tough habit to kick.

MadDogFL62

Yea, had a Blackberry too. Corporate issue - from side menu roller access, to track ball, to small touch square. Corporate went to iPhones, but I didn't want an app-launcher. Got a Corporate Plan with my Windows Phone, but I have to pay it then get the expense reimbursed.

I've was using the Cyan update for many months on one of my company phones that we have to test our mobile apps on through the WP Developer Program. Cortana and the 8.1 features are awesome. Now running 8.1 GDR 1 on the same phone. Stable for 8 days now, and some cool updates in GDR 1 for creating folder tiles. Xbox Music has some nice updates in that release as well.

The Developer Program for Windows Phone is pretty good. Below is some info about getting on board. Something to do until Verizon releases Cyan. Just make sure you back up your phone prior to joining and running the updates. There remains a slight chance that you may have to restore back to 8 before loading Cyan.

Windows Phone 8.1 GDR 1 Option

Krunal

MadDogFL62

primortal

They are lying to you....

If WP 8.1 was rolling out to devices I guarantee you WPCentral would be reporting on this or members on their forums. In fact WPCentral is reporting that AT&T is reportedly just started rolling out the update to the Lumia 1020.

Also this page, Availability in North America - Nokia would have reflected that it was available; sometimes a day or two behind reporting availability.

MadDogFL62 something to add to you FCC case that customer service blatantly lied about the roll out to their customers

Krunal

primortal, lets assume for a second they are lying. now think logically and tell me a reason why would the person on the phone would have lied about this? What would she get out of it? What would have prompted her to say 62% instead of lets say 30% or 40%? She could have very well said any number right?

Another possibility is all agents are told to lie about it, I.e someone higher up in CS dept told all agents to to lie about it, in that case, they would have an internal record with that communication and do you understand the legal implications if that every gets leaked out?

In any case, I wouldn't call someone a liar without proof.

In the worst case, I think here is what could have happened.

1. Her internal systems showed that 62% customers are already upgraded - This could be due to people upgrading their own through dev channel?

2. She might have misunderstood windows phone 8.1 update and provided me number for some completely irrelavent update

primortal

From a customer service perspective they have metrics on how many calls answered and out of those calls how many have been closed and those remaining open/unanswered. It's in their best interest to close all requests vs. having ones open.

The proof is no one is getting Windows Phone 8.1 + Cyan from VZW at the moment. It would be reported on various web sites that VZW has started pushing out the update.

I might have been harsh in say the CS lies; maybe she miss understood the question. Maybe 62% of the install base is customers with the Developers Preview installed which does not include the firmware upgrade; though that is not coming from VZW but from Microsoft. Splitting hairs...

So she is either a) confused with the WP 8.1+Cyan and DP WP 8.1 or b) Higher ups pushed that script down to placate customers....

MadDogFL62

<< Duplicate post. See Re: Windows Phone DAY at Verizon 8/19/14 >>

Post edited by: Verizon Moderator

MadDogFL62

Update.

Verizon called about FCC claim. I did not call back.

Verizon sent email about FCC claim. I returned the email, copied myself, and told them that unless they had a crystal clear explanation about how there were going to handle these WP update delays that we have been experiencing for 3 years now, that they needed to keep my claim open and that I wanted mediation with the FCC. (The FCC told me over the phone that it is up to Verizon to tell them that I requested the claim to stay open. I am anxious to see if they do.)

Verizon has tried to contact me again by phone using some cowardly "restricted" phone number that I refuse to answer. I don't need any Verizon lip service and I am most certainly going to make sure that someone from the FCC is on the line if options, alternatives, resolutions - or "whatever" are to be communicated. I expect to hear from Verizon again in writing this week, or I am going to take the copy of my first Verizon email and fax it over to the FCC following the procedures listed at the beginning of this post/thread.

So far, so good. I have a small amount of paper backup. Confirmation from the FCC regarding my complaint and a brief email thread with Verizon telling them that I am unhappy with their response and that I expected them to report the claim as still open. I am anxious to see what Verizon will do because they clearly did not like hearing that I wanted the claim left open. And if they don't communicate to me in writing soon - I am going to be even more interested to see what the FCC has to say about my request when I write them. I figure that, from there, I will either get some mediation, the FCC will talk to Verizon directly about the situation, or I will be sending my paperwork over to Pam Bondi's Staff to see what they suggest.

rjlevine105

First off, I too want these updates and I am in no way defending Verizon, but for the love god, why are you still a VZW customer? They're not a monopoly.

Every customer knows they're going to be last to roll out updates. I wouldn't even think to start bitching about it until the other carriers are done rolling it out and they're not even close to doing so.

At least with WP we have the developer preview, which right now, is at the exact same build as any public releases and no, it won't void a warranty. With Android, you'd either have to wait forever or root the phone.

nemz

I'm sorry to say MadDog, this is one you should just let go. By the sounds of it, the FCC is trying to make Verizon deal with you because they can't. Like you said, "The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents." This is very true, but it's another way of saying "no matter how stupid the complaint, we have to treat it as legitimate." I could file a complaint saying that my phone rang too loud and caused me to cut myself shaving and I could get the same response. They are required to work with you to find a solution, but that doesn't mean it will end up with any action against Verizon. From what you've given us, the FCC has given you the generic reply and asked if you were satisfied. Because you weren't satisfied, they are required to bring it to Verizon's attention. Now Verizon is calling you from a restricted number because they are hoping you just won't pick up so after the third try they can just write in the report "called the customer several times, no response." I'm pretty sure that since you've escalated this complaint so far, VZW is just going to give you a generic response but offer a way out of your contract if you're still not satisfied. Eventually if you keep telling the FCC you're not satisfied, they will tell you it's out of their hands and they tried to help you every way that they could. The only thing this achieves is wasting taxpayer dollars to have government workers spend time on this.

I'm not trying to troll your posts or be an (removed) here, but it's issues like this that we can't be wasting government resources on. We are not entitled to an update just because we want it. VZW never promised it and it is not critical to our service. I'm not on Verizon's side either. The only reason I'm still with them is because of my unlimited data. As soon as they take that away I'm jumping ship. I'm upset that we haven't got the update yet but I'm still hopeful that they are going to release it. Be thankful that you will get the update because you are not entitled to it.

>> Edited to comply with the Verizon Wireless Terms of Service <<

Edited by: Verizon Moderator

rednibkram

It is people like you that post this nonsense that allow Verizon to keep delaying our updates. MadDogFL is trying to do something to help us receive these updates faster. Anything is better than nothing. And also, let me assure you of one thing you definitely got wrong. Verizon DOES have to release any update that the manufacturer releases unless they can prove it causes damage to their network. Verizon cannot change code on a manufacturer update and can only test the update on their network to ensure it does not create problems on their network. If no problems are discovered, they are legally bound to release the software update. Otherwise, Microsoft (or any other manufacturer) would have a legal claim for damages (possibly sales) against Verizon. I have already spoken to Microsoft executives regarding my FCC complaint, and Microsoft is currently working with the FCC to gather information regarding my claim. The Microsoft executive that I spoke with agrees that "7 weeks is quite a lengthy time to be 'testing' a firmware update." He said he will also try to reach Verizon Executive office to discuss the delay.

I might only be getting lip service from Verizon, Microsoft and even the FCC, but it's these kinds of posts and these kinds of actions that let Verizon know we are NOT happy with the update process and they really need to make changes. When you guys get on here and make excuses and defend Verizon, you are NOT helping ALL of us get these updates faster. In doing so, you are either not very smart or a Verizon employee posing as a poster. Despite the excuses and defensive comments, we PAYING CUSTOMERS are not happy with the delays in updates at Verizon Wireless. And another thing, you commenters keep saying "if you are not happy, switch to another carrier." Well what if 90% of the customers who are dissatisfied with Verizon's update practices decide to switch. Where would Verizon be then? Maybe I'll start a campaign....

gernerttl

The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

So how is that complaint working out for you? It's been almost a month; have you heard back from either Verizon or the FCC?

MadDogFL62

gernerttl Thank you for asking. The FCC requires Verizon to contact the customer about any complaint filed within 30 days. Since my complaint was filed well over 30 days ago, Verizon attempted to contact me by phone, then sent me an email. Based on their email follow-up, Verizon was notified in writing that I am not satisfied with their response (um, yea, we're working on it) and that I want my case escalated with the FCC.

Technically, Verizon is supposed to let the FCC know, but there is no way of confirming that this occurred. Known for their admitted "oversights" in the past, I decided not to let everything rest on what Verizon is "supposed to do".

I took a copy of my communication with Verizon and filed it with a letter to the FCC requesting escalation and intervention last week. I am not exactly sure how that escalation happens or what will occur. I simply followed the instructions given to me by the FCC over the phone and in a personal letter to my home. Kind of a wait and see situation right now. I expect that I will give it until next Friday, then give the FCC a call back to see where things stand.

BDub43

I filed my complaint --- Reference Number 14-C00612233

Wineman89

I also assumed we would be getting the update soon as well. I'm new to Windows phones and not familiar with everything yet. I know that when I tried to add my Google account, so I could get my contacts and email, Google is blocking access because of some security issue that's been fixed with the cyan update. I'm posting screen shots. The first is from the email Google sent warning about "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked". The second is after I clicked the "learn more" link. I apologize in advance if they're too big.

You would think Verizon would want their customers to be using a more secure device and get our update released.

BDub43

Those are standard message response's for incompatibilities with Google Mail login. It doesn't mean there is a security issue with WP 8.1

Sent from my Windows Phone

BDub43

If you run the DP release software you can login. I am using it and I can login to a Gmail account.

Sent from my Windows Phone

Wineman89

Yep, I'd meant the security problem was with 8 and was fixed with the 8.1 update. I don't know how big of a security risk it would be to allow login with less secure apps, but it would seem like Verizon would want to get the update out so we wouldn't have to worry about the security risk.

I just ran across the DP earlier today when browsing through the store and it looked interesting. I did see a few negative reviews about it really being 8.0.1 instead of 8.1 and something about a glitch with DP that wouldn't let us install the Cyan update unless we wiped the phone first. Since I got my phone about a week ago I'm not too worried about losing anything with a wipe just yet, but after a few months I may have things I'd rather not erase if I don't have too.

Wineman89

One other thing is that when I was trying to decide whether to stick with Android or switch to WP one of the things that swayed me was when I tried out the simulator. The simulator was showing the 8.1 features with Cortana and that was pretty misleading after coming to the forums and seeing the issues with the update. I just tried looking at the simulator again, but it's not working now. Curious if anyone else did that. I still like the phone, but I'd like it better if it had what I was expecting it have, lol

MadDogFL62

Apple's iOS 8 for iPhone released today. And guess what. It's an OTA (Over The Air) download for all iPhone owners immediately. Release - today. Download - today. Even on Verizon.

No, it doesn't have to be illegal to complain to the FCC. iOS 8 - no waiting and Windows Phone 8.1 Cyan is now over 2 months late.

But wait. Before you complain to the FCC, make that complaint worth your time and the efforts of those from the FCC Consumer Division looking out for you. Regardless of how it happens, it's nonsense that iPhone customers get their OS updates immediately. A concern worth adding to your complaint - but there's more. It's also important (and aggravating) to point out that Windows Phone customers ARE NOT GETTING their 8.1 update that includes critical items such as: VPN and security fixes, email encryption fixes, Wi-Fi Security, Corporate Security fixes, Geofencing enhancements, Office document security, NFC Security, accessibility options, and more. Please be sure to share with the FCC the list below because you really are missing out and are at Verizon's mercy in receiving your update.

www.fcc.gov/complaint And when Verizon calls to ask if you have your update and are happy - be sure to give them a "heck no". Demand that your claim stay open and that you want the FCC to get involved. Go to my first post in this tread and follow the instructions. It's time for some accountability with these updates (after 3 years), it's time that these updates are pre-release tested, and it's time that release timelines are tightened up and published to the public. Every finger points at Verizon, with many of these "fingers" offering to help with the updates (ahem, Microsoft). And as Verizon (and other carriers) are forced to take on unlocked devices, this update situation is going to only get worse. It's time for the FCC to get their arms around this situation and Verizon is a great place to start.

Sharing secured Wi-Fi Networks with contacts if they have Wi-Fi Sense. They don't get to see the shared password though
Social notifications will now show up in Action Center by swiping from the top of the screen
Operators can now control Data Sense limits remotely
Operators can also install certain applications once a SIM card is detected
Along with normal updates, there are now "important" updates
Options to always download emails and pictures within them
Encrypted and signed e-mail support
Change default SMS app. You can also change which SMS app will show notifications
Enterprise enrolled phones can have their passwords changed and remotely locked
"Write, when I swipe through letters." That should be self-explanatory
Geofence monitoring support. Geofence is a boundary around a place of interest to you. Location services can monitor geofences to tell your apps when you are entering and leaving them. This would be really good for IFTTT
Office Lens support. Will scan in documents and screens
The phone will have to update to the latest version before you can restore it to factory settings
Option to update store apps automatically
Option to update store apps when only on Wi-Fi
App Suggestions by location
Manual Update checks
Password protected Office document support
Trusted app list for NFC that will remove the need for asking whether you want to open a particular app
In-call speech commands. You will be able to say 'Call XXXXXX'
Double-Tap to unlock your phone (Feature from Lumia devices on Amber Update and newer)
Quiet Hours
Double Tap to Power Off
Notification if charger is not of adequate power
Screenshot button combination is now Power + Volume Up
Chkdsk for SD Cards essentially
Apps on SD Cards are only allowed from ONE originating phone. If it detects that apps from another phone are installed on the SD Card, then it will ask to delete those first
Voice Narrator for Accessibility
The Search button will be the new way to open Speech instead of the Start button (Since the newer phones will have the start button on screen)
New Email sync options with accordance to usage patterns (i.e. If you get a lot of mail on particular days and if you don't check mail every day)
Change the size and amount of tiles on your start screen.
Wallet supports tickets and membership cards
App Syncing
Backups now include application data
Screen Reader functionality
Screen Recording functionality
Inner Circle of contacts. Up to 40 contacts can be in the inner circle
You can favorite photos by tapping a heart icon
Virtual SmartCard support

Tidbits

You keep bringing up the iPhone....

Like I said a BILLION times... Placebo effect because Apple WAITS for all their devices to finish before pushing it out. So Nokia could have done the same thing and you wouldn't have known... Join ADC and check it out for yourself. Of course you'll have to wait for the next beta...

rednibkram

If Verizon (and you) are so tired of all this complaining, the why don't they go to Microsoft and invite them into the same kine of "pre-release" pretesting that Apple does? The reason Apple does it is because they DEMANDED it in order for Verizon to get the iPhone. Verizon has denied this same pre-release pretesting to all the other manufacturers. What do you think we have been complaining about all this time? Duh!

rcschnoor

rednibkram wrote:

If Verizon (and you) are so tired of all this complaining, the why don't they go to Microsoft and invite them into the same kine of "pre-release" pretesting that Apple does? The reason Apple does it is because they DEMANDED it in order for Verizon to get the iPhone. Verizon has denied this same pre-release pretesting to all the other manufacturers. What do you think we have been complaining about all this time? Duh!

Yes, Apple demanded it by threatening to withhold access to sell their 10 million units on Verizon each year if Verizon didn't capitulate.

Microsoft demanding the same thing by threatening to withhold access to sell their 100,000 units on Verizon each year simply doesn't hold the same clout to it.

You may not like it, but those with the market share DO wield greater power.

Tidbits

rednibkram wrote:

If Verizon (and you) are so tired of all this complaining, the why don't they go to Microsoft and invite them into the same kine of "pre-release" pretesting that Apple does? The reason Apple does it is because they DEMANDED it in order for Verizon to get the iPhone. Verizon has denied this same pre-release pretesting to all the other manufacturers. What do you think we have been complaining about all this time? Duh!

Like I said before Join ADC... Just because Apple releases everything all at once doesn't mean they were done all at the same time. If you watch They were done with the update MONTHS ago for the iPad, and iPod Touches. Followed by the iPhones later all. Apple doesn't release based on when they finished like other manufacturers.

Like HTC and Motorola do with pretesting? Did you know it's up to the manufacturer to do so not Verizon... Right...

For HTC buy an HTC device join their Elevate program and see if you can get into beta testing

Motorola has the same thing. I don't remember where to sign up but they had it for a while(Since the Droid X was I remember). Oh look hey... how fast did HTC and Motorola bring updates to their devices on Verizon? hmmm... See a trend here? Verizon isn't pretesting those updates... If they can do it why can't Nokia...

RustyinPA

hi,

I already tried the Windows 8.1 Cyan update with another Carrier and folks your not missing much. I think it uses more data and more useless programs; maybe everyone wants to talk to Cortana. I may not even upgrade!

MadDogFL62

Verizon IS offering a way to get that update. Ironically, it involves a new phone (and waiting a few more months). But what's a few months wait between us Windows Phone customers? Sorry VZW, nothing is a secret these days.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Verizon-branded-Nokia-Lumia-1520-in-white-preserved-on-film_id47435

rjlevine105

MadDogFL62 wrote:

Verizon IS offering a way to get that update. Ironically, it involves a new phone (and waiting a few more months). But what's a few months wait between us Windows Phone customers? Sorry VZW, nothing is a secret these days.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Verizon-branded-Nokia-Lumia-1520-in-white-preserved-on-film_id47435

Nice try, chief. Check out the date on that post. Pay particular attention to the year.

BDub43

It's the back of the ICON

Sent from my Windows Phone

rjlevine105

I'm aware. :smileyhappy:

MadDogFL62

Yeah. A little dated I guess. Maybe the 1530 with Denim in December would be a good strategy?

MadDogFL62

Cyan going out to those with Developer Preview. Test round going out today. Perhaps a sign of the future?

http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-releases-lumia-cyan-update-for-another-batch-of-developer-preview-devices/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Everyone asking-- we're hoping to push some updates to Dev Preview this week, addressing storage install probs, HTC support, Cyan ramp-up.</p>— joebelfiore (@joebelfiore) <a href="https://twitter.com/joebelfiore/status/514219789112201218">September 23, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MadDogFL62

This Developer Preview Program is starting to be worth it's weight in gold.

Windows Phone 8.1 GDR 1 Option

New Picture (1).jpg

LumiaIconUser

Yeah, I've had 8.1 for months, 8.1.1 for weeks... I would REALLY like to see the Cyan firmware now. Unfortunately, all of this Belfiore announcing has to do with fixing issues for people on DP whose carriers have already released Cyan. i.e. not us.

BDub43

I spoke with Verizon about my FCC complaint last night. In a nut shell, they are using the we are working with Microsoft and Nokia to resolve issue with the new firmware update and our network and have been working with the OEM on a few revisions. Once we have confirmed the software is stable on our network and other advances features such as VoLTE work we will release the firmware. I told them keep my case open because I can not believe it is that difficult to release an update that include non-network related enhancements. What makes the Verizon Network so special when the rest of the world and AT&T have release cyan on almost all of there LUMIA line old and new. It can't be CDMA because we are talking about a technology that in its current flavor has been in place since 2002 in the US, it is the technology used by GPS and LTE the new goto cellular technology for the future. Interesting piece is Qualcomm is the chip maker of choice so all the driver's are developed and issued by Qualcomm so there is no rocket science involved. erizon I call BS until you can get Microsoft\Nokia to confirm any issues you are having with the update.

Sent from my Windows Phone

MadDogFL62

BDub43: I spoke to the FCC this week and discovered a few things.

First, Verizon will not report you complaint as still open. They will write back to the FCC and tell them that there was "no violation found". They did so in my case. I asked the FCC why there had to be a violation attached to my complaint and I was told that "this is not a requirement".

Next, the FCC said that the next step up to the consumer. If you want to keep your case open - regardless of Verizon's response - you need to do so in writing. First, provide any email communication that you have had with Verizon. Their email. Your response(s). Next, officially request in writing that the case stay open and why. Once you have done so, you can mail all paperwork to the address below or simply fax it to the attention of the same organization group on the mailing address below.

From there, your follow up and request get matched in the database to your original complaint and an agent is assigned to it from there (and may contact you via phone, email or letter). This is pretty much the stage I am at today.

Oh, and get ready for a harassing call from Verizon - from some clown named "Ray" who calls your cell on a number that is blocked or shows as "private". He tries to confirm who you are, asks you to call back, etc. If you go into your phone settings / blocked calls / advanced - you can set up a block on callers who withhold phone numbers. A nice WP feature evidently made just for Verizon.

FCC Consumer Line: 1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX: 1- 866-418-0232

MadDogFL62

Hopefully there will be a Technical Preview of Windows Phone 10. If so, Verizon could possibly start testing that ASAP - beating Cyan to the door with a whole new OS?

SMH Verizon. October 1 makes Cyan 2.5 months or 10 weeks late. Thank god for the Developer Preview(s).

You should be impressed Verizon; you are neck and neck with CRICKET in taking the longest to release Cyan.

Availability in North America - Nokia

unknown

Your reading skills leave a lot to be desired.

[Quote]

You should be impressed Verizon; you are neck and neck with CRICKET in taking the longest to release Cyan.

Availability in North America - Nokia

[/quote]

Only AT&T out of major carriers in the US has released Cyan.

Constantly giving wrong information and then giving a link showing you are wrong. Now that's a hoot.

rednibkram

I know there are some who will not quite understand what you have posted here and try to twist it into something else, however I fully understand your point of view and totally agree with you.

I'm sure the point you are making is that AT&T and Verizon are the two largest phone companies in the United States. T-Mobile and Sprint combined are equal to half of what Verizon is. T-Mobile only has two WP devices, neither of which are a flagship device and Sprint only has one very old low-end Windows Phone.

AT&T has already upgraded ALL of their Windows Phones including the non-flagship devices. While Verizon (the other largest phone company in the United States) hasn't been able to update a single Lumia device, one of which is one of Microsoft's top, high-end flagship device (the Lumia Icon). If a MAJOR telephone company the size of Verizon can't devote enough time and energy into updating the firmware for two phones (as previously stated, one of which is one of Microsoft's top flagship devices), then I'd say that make Verizon look either extremely pitiful, terribly lazy, highly manipulative! Either way, it's not a company I'm interested in doing business with.

BDub43

Amen to that

unknown

There is no twisting involved

The statement like others was totally incorrect. Even with their own web link which showed it was incorrect.

That is fact.

MadDogFL62

jharris326 It's forum and post posture 101. Electra plays an important role in the entire ecosystem of the forum. You see, he is always right - and he must always tell you that. And while it's easy to identify that he has a problem - "we" keep it to ourselves because his rambling posts help keep our issues and concerns about the update at the TOP of the forum. So, be kind. Let him go. He serves a purpose.

Then there's Tids. Sorry, but I disconnected with him a long time ago. Girls, gambling, alcohol - I don't know what to suggest. The guy needs some kind of bad habit to cheer him up. Always grumpy yet always has to stay in the mix. Also a rambler... "I know because I am technical", blah, blah, blah. But then again, I appreciate him as he also helps keep our issues at the top of the Windows Phone forum.

Re: The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

Just waiting for Tids to chime in.

No one has time to read. Everyone just wants to post. Stop and read the posts you make your ridiculous replies to and you will make yourself appear a lot less, well, ridiculous.

unknown

Stop posting your inaccurate statements like I cut and pasted your wrong post.

Verizon is not neck and neck with cricket and they are not the last carrier to push out the updates. Wrong wrong wrong like usual.

Tidbits

Yes just like you don't like to read.

You show no factual information and go by blog sites and what they believe.

What I merely stated initially is what the rest of the world is doing and how they are getting what we are getting. I am not doing it your way because the last 6 years of history proves what YOU are doing isn't working while I look over the pond and see updates happening more often.

Manufacturers love when you misdirect blame. Motorola and HTC found out the hard way and they are doing what you think Verizon is stopping you from having. How are they updating their devices quickly and more often? Their market share isn't all stellar either. So you can go ahead and blame Verizon while I blame Nokia. I'd rather be doing what the rest of the world is doing because it seems to be working about better than what you are doing(what many others before you have done for the past 6 years).

bsites1968

There ya have it! Another post ending with Elector and Tidbits! Congrats, guys, on having the last word. I wonder how many of these posts end this way... Keep up the work, boys, I'm enjoying the laugh!

MadDogFL62

BINGO...

MadDogFL62 wrote:

jharris326 It's forum and post posture 101. Electra plays an important role in the entire ecosystem of the forum. You see, he is always right - and he must always tell you that. And while it's easy to identify that he has a problem - "we" keep it to ourselves because his rambling posts help keep our issues and concerns about the update at the TOP of the forum. So, be kind. Let him go. He serves a purpose.

Then there's Tids. Sorry, but I disconnected with him a long time ago. Girls, gambling, alcohol - I don't know what to suggest. The guy needs some kind of bad habit to cheer him up. Always grumpy yet always has to stay in the mix. Also a rambler... "I know because I am technical", blah, blah, blah. But then again, I appreciate him as he also helps keep our issues at the top of the Windows Phone forum.

In the mean time, we have gone over the 10 week mark waiting for Cyan. It's not too late to complain. File your complaint today. www.fcc.gov/complaints Verizon will give you some kind of email or lip service about the update within 30 days. Simply tell Verizon that the delays are unacceptable and ask what they plan to do about it. Then, after your call or email, send a fax to the FCC at 1- 866-418-0232 explaining that the delays are excessive, that they have not been addressed to your satisfaction and that you want them (the FCC) to escalate this problem with Verizon. Be sure to include your name, address and original FCC claim number.

rcschnoor

MadDogFL62 wrote:

It's not too late to complain. File your complaint today. www.fcc.gov/complaints Verizon will give you some kind of email or lip service about the update within 30 days. Simply tell Verizon that the delays are unacceptable and ask what they plan to do about it. Then, after your call or email, send a fax to the FCC at 1- 866-418-0232 explaining that the delays are excessive, that they have not been addressed to your satisfaction and that you want them (the FCC) to escalate this problem with Verizon. Be sure to include your name, address and original FCC claim number.

I'd be interested in how those escalations have been going in the past 10 weeks????

Tidbits

If you look I didn't respond for a while until he specifically targeted me in his response so I responded. If he didn't I wouldn't have responded.

Have a great day.

MadDogFL62

I put my complaint in the second week after Microsoft announced their release to the carriers. At about the 25 day mark, I got an email from Verizon telling me that the update was delayed, that they were still testing, and that I could enjoy shopping for Accessories on their Website if I wanted. Yeah, what a bunch of clowns.

I responded to the email saying the delays were unacceptable. I, then, took my received and sent email with Verizon and faxed it in to the FCC with another cover letter revisiting my complaint. After a few weeks, I got a standard - almost form letter from the FCC stating that my letter was being attached to my original complaint and would be turned over to an FCC representative. That was about 2 weeks ago.

During this timeline, I have also heard from other forum members who actually spoke to a Verizon Rep state that there were numerous customers who have been complaining - and doing so with the FCC. I guess I am happy to hear that I am not the only one.

I plan to give it another week - then will call the FCC to see what is going on with this "Representative Escalation" they sent me a letter about. Progress is slow, but it seems as if we are getting the attention of a few people.

unknown

I will respond every single time this mad dog poster puts out inaccurate information.

The poster you replied to actually contributes nothing but static.

I laugh with every post it makes.

And like RC posted "Nothing has been done in all these weeks" just like I posted from the start. Nothing will be done with all these so called complaints.

Verizon Wireless will release any update "when if if they are good and ready to do so"

Verizon's own replies to these posts show they are revealing absolutely nothing and no law or regulation says they have to.

So let the complaints continue. Zero will happen.

Happy Wednesday to all!

Tidbits

Much like the 6 years of complaints from Android users of the same complaint. They even have lawsuits and such. Yet they haven't even gotten the FCC to investigate. That speak volumes. Millions of complaints and the FCC still hasn't. Yet they think Windows Phone complaints will make a difference.

Wineman89

If you guys don't like all the complaining then why continue reading the threads on it and posting?

yleetsbob

I am going to ditch Windows Phone as soon as I can. Back to android, boy was that an expensive mistake.

rohbean

Verizon Wireless appears to be deliberately trying to undermine the Windows Phone platform. And they don't care about our complaints and gripes, nor does the FCC.

yleetsbob

Filing a complaint with the FCC is a fruitless endeavor. I (out of curiosity) filed my complaint last week and I received an email from a Verizon rep last night asking me to call them. (I was shocked) Until my 2nd Voicemail and 2nd Email Went unanswered today.(That's what I expected) Regardless, I am going to be told that I need to shut up, deal with it and wait. Lets see what new surprises Verizon has for me now.

jharris326

Since Verizon is not returning emails or calls when the FCC contacts you tell them you attempted to return their calls/emails and NEVER got a response. If nothing else the FCC will then go back and push them on why they were not responding as dictated by rules and law.

unknown

The FCC is not going to force Verizon to roll out an update.

primortal

mrhelper wrote:

The FCC is not going to force Verizon to roll out an update.

Granted the FCC cannot force Verizon but; and not holding my breath on this but the FCC can put out a rule that all carriers must release updates received from manufactures for all devices supported on said carriers network no later than 60 days. If an exception is needed it must be filed before the 60 day window. If the update is not released within 60 days (sans exception) a fine will be changed per day till said update is released or exception filed.

bkgreenva

During all these discussions concerning the release of Windows 8.1 lets not forget Windows 9 is right around the corner for release which im sure we will never see either. AT&T has been rolling out 8.1 since its release from Microsoft.

And just a remember when we went to the AT&T store Saturday they are buying Verizon contracts out.

so all Verizon users have another option, as soon as you tell them you are currently with Verizon they offer the buy out up front

bsites1968

Correction: Windows 10, not 9.

primortal

There is no Windows 9 anymore It will be Windows 10, and will be released sometime mid next year, 9+ month away.

B33

It's funny in a way how Microsoft.. they're jumping from 8 & 8.1 to 10 and left 9 out of the picture, my only hope on this is it's not too big of Jump to were owners can't update there machines to it..

unknown

Stop complaining

If it cannot be installed on your computer, and none of your devices work anymore after installing just go out and keep the economy moving and buy an all new Windows 10 computer.

You know that is what Microsoft wants the kiddies to do.

Or go out and get an iMac or Google Chrome unit.

Ha ha just thought you could use a good laugh. Or here is a better thought, just keep the OS you have now.

Have a good one my friend!

bkgreenva

Which was just recently changed since they also changed the PC name as well from 9 to 10, also today is a news release thqt by 10 release date it may be simply Windows.

But thanks for all the corrections

unknown

B33 wrote:

It's funny in a way how Microsoft.. they're jumping from 8 & 8.1 to 10 and left 9 out of the picture, my only hope on this is it's not too big of Jump to were owners can't update there machines to it..

They changed it to 10 form 9 because of the coding. many programs out there have code that determine which OS you're using and Windows 9 could be confused with Windows 95 or 98. Yes plenty of programs still have this code in it. For the record the Tech Preview is out and I have it on a separate partition. Should placate most of the Windows 8 haters while not taking everything away us Windows 8 lovers liked.

barnfish

Rumors are flying that Verizon has "retired" the Icon, and I just verified it's no long offered on Verizon's website. The only Nokia currently available from Verizon is the 928. Maybe Verizon and Microsoft/Nokia are having a little squabble, and Verizon sees dropping Windows Phone as an acceptable loss - try buying a Windows phone in a brick and mortar Verizon store.

Verizon reportedly retires the Lumia Icon less than a year after launch | Windows Phone Central

MadDogFL62

Update: Got another call from the "Executive Offices" from Verizon about 9 days ago. Representative wants to speak to me "right away" about additional communication from the FCC about my complaint.

Well, Mr. Quincy Byrd should then return MY call if he is so anxious to speak to me about my complaint. I called him back at 770-521-5642 as he requested and that was close to a week ago.

I am sure that by tomorrow afternoon, I will lose my patience and end up calling him again. I'll let you know what words of wisdom Quincy has. Maybe he can explain canceling the ICON, too - since that is my current device with them.

unknown

That reporting to the FCC thing is really helping you get that update isn't it?

rednibkram

Maybe not, but it sure is getting a whole lot of media attention! Verizon is really looking bad to potential customers right now and AT&T is actively recruiting based on it. I love it! Maybe Verizon should rethink their customer relations policies and find a way to update devices faster or they could get passed up by AT&T.

unknown

Ha ha I needed that joke of the day

Media attention? Where? I read a small forum post on a couple of web sites. I don't see CNN or even MSNBC giving any coverage. This is a non issue.

AT&T is not getting huge numbers for the Windows Phones.

I can say they do have the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6+ available for immediate sale in the corporate store near me.

They did have a small selection of the windows phones on the far side wall.

However the Apple devices and LG devices were right in front center of the store. Does that tell you anything my friend.

Maybe today I will go up and take a photo just so you can see that AT&T is not pushing them either.

Verizon corporate store is right in the next plaza.

Have a great Friday

unknown

rednibkram wrote:

Maybe not, but it sure is getting a whole lot of media attention! Verizon is really looking bad to potential customers right now and AT&T is actively recruiting based on it. I love it! Maybe Verizon should rethink their customer relations policies and find a way to update devices faster or they could get passed up by AT&T.

Really because of outside of here I haven't heard and thing and I keep up on this industry. Sorry Windows phone are maybe 3% at best. So the vast majority of people don't care. And I'm willing to bet at least half the people using Windows phones aren't even aware of OS updates. Frankly I'm tired of people whining whether it be Windows or Android or iOS. Your phone is fine until you hear about some new update that is usually minor then all of sudden your perfectly working device is garbage.

phanes

My friend has an iPhone. I've used his enough to hate it.

I love the Lumia Icon and if someone gave me an iPhone, I'd want to trade it off for an Icon.

While it's true (and a bit annoying) that so many apps are only available for iPhone and Android, I consider my stubborn support for the Windows Phone (specifically Icon) a mark of my love for it. It's like casting my vote into the phone world. I wanted something I could use as a "mini-computer" without getting a full-sized tablet. I really REALLY wanted the Nokia Lumia 1520, but since that's an AT&T exclusive and since AT&T really sucks around here due to dropped calls, I had to remain with Verizon through which I so rarely get dropped calls that it's never an annoyance.

So the best thing I could get through Verizon was the Lumia Icon. I was angry about that, but at least this Icon is bigger than any iPhone they had.

MadDogFL62

Those of you who have filed complaints have probably already heard back from your "Verizon Executive Offices" Rep regarding your claim. Quincy Byrd is my Rep and I have had a few conversations with him regarding the Cyan 8.1 delay. Conversations are "shallow", but seem to echo what Joe Belfiore had to say on Twitter today:

http://www.windowscentral.com/verizon-working-its-windows-phone-81cyan-updates

I believe that there are challenges in getting the new XLTE to perform on the ICON device (and possibly others). I am sure that there is a finger pointing session going on between VZW and MSFT. Whatever. The problem should have been identified 2 months ago.

I find Joe's comments about "Verizon taking quality seriously..." to be over exaggerated. Isn't this the same carrier who just dropped the Lumia ICON and refuses to carry the Lumia 730 until 2015? That's serious?

Anyway, "serious" is what I continue to discuss with Quincy. What can be done about pre-testing devices? What can be done about allowing non-business customers to help test releases? My company was involved in the LTE rollout and the testing of other devices. So why not allow non-business / enthusiast-type users to help? At the rate we are going, Cyan is going to be released close to the same day that Verizon gets Denim to test. If you have your Rep's contact information, continue to pound them with requests for resolution, shorter wait times, and improved testing processes.

Remember that Cyan and 8.1 have been available for Verizon to test since July 15th, 2014. Developer Previews were available before that. Now, all of a sudden, Verizon has found bugs they want fixed 3+ months later? Not only was there no pre-testing here, but it would be realistic to say that Verizon sat on the update for several weeks before testing.

Yeah. Taking quality seriously.

unknown

Around three weeks ago I called Verizon tech support and interestingly the rep told me there could be issues with the XLTE not working correctly and this may be why there is a delay.

I see your making a play on those words "Taking quality seriously", I would encourage you not to do this as it creates confusion among people. Its best to tell it straight. That quote was not in reference to them getting things out fast, rather it actually supports in some fashion or another why they are delaying the update.

MadDogFL62

...and don't let Verizon's "serious software testing" delay your Microsoft BAND purchase. This very cool new device requires Windows Phone 8.1 to run and here's how you can get 8.1 on your Verizon Windows Phone...

It's called the Microsoft Windows Phone Preview for Developers (write this down Verizon):

Click the link above and register. Then, download the app and you will have access to the most recent developer version for Windows Phone 8.1. All of the features that Verizon has been dragging their feet on (except Cyan) will be loaded to your device! Cortana, Notification Center, Folders and more! In addition, apps and devices that require 8.1 will also now work with your phone. I find the preview to be Microsoft's way of getting around the carrier delays and still keeping the customer somewhat satisfied. I certainly am!

So load up that Developer Preview and head out this weekend to buy that Microsoft BAND before they run out of stock. It can also be ordered out of the Microsoft Store with 2-day shipping!

Tidbits

That's for apps not RILs, and other things.... There's more to it than just that man...

Also this kind of stuff can't be tested until Microsoft is finished with the code, and phone manufacturers are finished their code either.

Microsoft works with parts manufacturers which is different than device manufacturers.

Also with the response given and what Microsoft person has said you treat as truth FCC will do nothing to help your cause as the update is being worked on and it proves it isn't finished yet which debunks the that it's finished...

unknown

[Quote]

Yeah. Taking quality seriously.

[/quote]

Its statements like these you make that are not based on any facts to support your claims.

How do you know Verizon did not send it to Microsoft sooner? You don't.

How do you know that the Lord Joe from Microsoft is giving you the truth? You don't.

And just like your FCC complaints you have no real basis for a complaint. So we get to read you once again attacking the carrier when you have zero facts to support your contentions other than a twitter post.

Verizon doesn't have to have beta testers for updates. They are not making the operating systems for these devices.

Google, Microsoft and Apple are.

And I would rather Verizon takes a longer time to insure it works on their networks than have you windows phone owners do what us windows machine owners do every Tuesday.....and that is patch and update windows machines.

You haven't realized it yet that everything Microsoft puts out is in constant beta with all their patches and updates.

Good Luck

unknown

So after 2 1/2 months since this thread started what has all the complaining to the FCC accomplished?

primortal

Elector wrote:

And I would rather Verizon takes a longer time to insure it works on their networks than have you windows phone owners do what us windows machine owners do every Tuesday.....and that is patch and update windows machines.

You haven't realized it yet that everything Microsoft puts out is in constant beta with all their patches and updates.

Gee someone has a disdain for Microsoft. You do realize that Microsoft, Google, Apple and *nix distributions release patches for desktops on a monthly basis correct? What phone OS releases monthly updates? Also Microsoft doesn't release patches every Tuesday, only once a month on the second Tuesday of the month.

If there are critical issues with Windows Phone Microsoft doesn't need VZW approval to release the update; with the caveat that the fix isn't firmware related. Then were back to a 3-4 month waiting period.

unknown

Actually I am not one who follows Microsoft blindly.

I have used them since DOS right up to windows 8.1 today.

I receive a patch or an update on every single Tuesday. The gist of what I am saying is Microsoft is constantly updating their devices. I suspect the new wrist device like the windows phone will be no different. Based on their actions over the years.

It reminds me of the James Bond movie "The World is not Enough" where Eliot Carver says to release their new software with the bugs so customers will have to update for years.

I see Microsoft in this parody.

Also I did not say all device makers release OS updates on a monthly basis.

I said you don't want to have Microsoft have the update Tuesdays on their phones like they do on the computers.

This statement is based on past performance.

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