Yes, only the E-SATA port will eventually be used for extra storage, The USB port is not capable of that.
The USB port's power is active now ... I use it to charge my cellphone 🙂
Eventually huh....? Well, I guess that's better than never! Also, it's the model qiP-6416 STB (not QI 'C'... I fat-fingered it last time), and it has a 160GB drive in it -NOT an 80GB. That was my old STB I had before.
* Is the USB port enabled by default? If not, then how did you enable it? At least I could use that port for SOMEthing (flash drive, or memory, or a USB flash card reader...). Here's the product information page from MOTO, but it says nothing about enabling ports or ANYthing, it's just specs: http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/TV+Video+Distribution/Customer+Premises+Equipment+(Set-tops)/Hybrid+QAM-IP+Set-tops/QIP+6416_US-EN
Here is the QIP-6416 spec sheet, which shows the back panel: http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/TV%20Video%20Distribution/Set-tops/Hybrid%20QAM-IP%20Set-tops/QIP%206416/_Documents/Static%20Files/QIP6416_data_sheet_New.pdf
It also has 2 IEEE1394 ports (firewire), and an 'optional' SATA port. Mine has all 4 ports, I just wish I knew how to turn them ON !!! It can't be a 'copyright issue' regarding movies or anything that they're worried about either. If you want the video off the HD all you have to do is extract the HD, copy it, decode/encode it, and put it back into the STB. Personally, I would never actually DO that, but it seems possible. All I want is the AVAILABLE capability to EXTEND MY STORAGE, and use a DVR Extension device (or 6)...
* They also offer a DCH model now (which looks quite functional, but is still only 1080i, and has a 160GB hd): http://www.motorola.com/business/US-EN/DCH3416_US-EN.do?vgnextoid=6c2d9e3eeed46110VgnVCM1000008406b00aRCRD
Thanks to everyone for your postings. Hope is a good thing.
Remember, in unity there is strength!
LTR<>RTL, Doc
The USB ports are not enabled. The only thing "on" is the power. Won't work with any USB device because it is not enabled.
There is nothing you can do to enable any of the ports. Verizon's (and Motorola's) firmware do not support them at this time. All the connectors in the world do no good if they don't have firmware to support them - and they don't.
None of Verizon's STBs currently offer a hard drive bigger than 160 G (hint - the last 2 digits of the DVR model number is the # of gigabytes divided by 10). Even installing a larger hard drive would do no good since the frimware hard codes the maximum size at 160 G. There is rumor of an STB with a 320 G hard drive, but that is just a rumor.
Hello everyone,
I am not here to comment on any rumors. Rumors are what they are and I know as much about them as you guys do. I am here however to post up some information direct from Motorola’s FAQ section on their website. The site below answers SATA port on the box.
http://tinyurl.com/5wj7zu
The next portion will answer questions about offloading DVR content. Unfortunately I am unable to get the direct link for some reason, so I will just paste it. You can locate it on the same page as the above link in the section labeled “users who have viewed this have also viewed” at the bottom(the answer id is 19213).
Question How do I transfer my programs from my Motorola DVR to an external device like my computer or hard drive? Answer No. Currently you can't offload recorded content to any external device from a Motorola DVR, even though the data ports are there, the software doesn't support it yet. When the option becomes available through a software upgrade, it will be downloaded to DVR automatically by service providers/cable companies.
***EDIT*** In hindsight i probably should hev used tiny URL for that long link...so i did. What i find interesting reading through that info about the SATA port is the statement about broadcasters. I have always been told it is the way it is and that is it. I think that's where the SATA rumor started.
TS
Hey TS:
Its pretty obvious that the biggest suggestion/complaint us customers have is the extremely limited recording capacity Verizon equipment supplies. And it's the easiest to address! So why isn't Verizon either doing something about this or at least telling us that it intends to. {please keep your posts courteous} . I've recently seen DVR quality, 1TB hard disks selling for under $100 on a quantity of just one. In quantities of hundreds of thousands that Motorola would be buying them in for the equipment it's supplying to Verizon, it couldn't raise the price very much. Why don't we have hard drive size options? Makes us customers feel like Verizon just doesn't care about us. Makes me yearn (can you believe!) for my upgraded DirecTV DVRs! (320hrs SD.) I find myself spending much too much time culling recordings because my Verizon DVRs are always close to 100% full.
Come on Verizon, it's an easy fix. Please FIX it soon!
Well...i had a nice long post written up for ya but i got auto logged out and lost it. Short and sweet version. I have confirmation were working on it amongst some other features highly requested on these forums. I actually found out product support and development actually trolls around here looking at suggestions. Now just because we are working on it does not mean it is going to happen. We may not find a suitable or cost effective solution for this problem and may have to wait for motorola to enable the ports.
@speedo123 wrote: Its pretty obvious that the biggest suggestion/complaint us customers have is the extremely limited recording capacity Verizon equipment supplies. {...} Why don't we have hard drive size options? {...} Makes me yearn (can you believe!) for my upgraded DirecTV DVRs! (320hrs SD.) I find myself spending much too much time culling recordings because my Verizon DVRs are always close to 100% full. {...}
Its pretty obvious that the biggest suggestion/complaint us customers have is the extremely limited recording capacity Verizon equipment supplies. {...} Why don't we have hard drive size options? {...} Makes me yearn (can you believe!) for my upgraded DirecTV DVRs! (320hrs SD.) I find myself spending much too much time culling recordings because my Verizon DVRs are always close to 100% full. {...}
+1
Very frustrating in this day and age when discs are so darn cheap. I so often enthusiastically recommend FiOS TV to friends and coworkers I should be getting a commission, but this is one area I have to warn them about. It's like we get HD-capable tuners with SD-capacity DVRs. It's pretty disappointing after all these years (had the same boxes with Comcast) that these devices can't be upgraded, either internally or by letting customers use the eSATA ports. FWIW, I know enough about encryption that it's really no big deal to encrypt everything that would be stored on an external drive, as long we accept that the drive or its content can never be moved to a different STB, so the content providers really shouldn't have anything to gripe about.
I'd buy an HD TiVO and return the Moto just for the capacity upgrade, if it wasn't for the additional monthly charge from TiVO to get the same schedule data that I get from FiOS anyway.
Come on Verizon, fix this thing. Charge me extra if you want, but get me some room on my HD DVR!
@speedo123 wrote: Hey TS:Its pretty obvious that the biggest suggestion/complaint us customers have is the extremely limited recording capacity Verizon equipment supplies. And it's the easiest to address! So why isn't Verizon either doing something about this or at least telling us that it intends to. {please keep your posts courteous} . Message Edited by KaLin on 12-13-2008 08:21 AM
Its pretty obvious that the biggest suggestion/complaint us customers have is the extremely limited recording capacity Verizon equipment supplies. And it's the easiest to address! So why isn't Verizon either doing something about this or at least telling us that it intends to. {please keep your posts courteous} . Message Edited by KaLin on 12-13-2008 08:21 AM
KaLin:
{edited} I asked a question that everyone would like an answer to and in some threads have screamed about. I thought I worded my frustration rather sedately. Please let me know what was offensive in what I said. If you'd rather PM me that's OK, but I really would like an answer so as to be sure I don't do it again.
{You have received information in your private message box -- > . It should be gold. Please Read.}
@TheSanchez wrote: Well...i had a nice long post written up for ya but i got auto logged out and lost it. ... TS
Well...i had a nice long post written up for ya but i got auto logged out and lost it. ... TS
@TheSanchez wrote: {...} I have confirmation were working on it amongst some other features highly requested on these forums. I actually found out product support and development actually trolls around here looking at suggestions. Now just because we are working on it does not mean it is going to happen. We may not find a suitable or cost effective solution for this problem and may have to wait for motorola to enable the ports. TS
{...} I have confirmation were working on it amongst some other features highly requested on these forums. I actually found out product support and development actually trolls around here looking at suggestions. Now just because we are working on it does not mean it is going to happen. We may not find a suitable or cost effective solution for this problem and may have to wait for motorola to enable the ports.
I know you don't control this, so nothing against you personally, but we've (and now as well as you) been told for a long time that this is being "worked on." The problem is we need a solution now. It's been way too long that a problem with so simple a fix hasn't been. It's already being done by your competitors. Sorry TS, but I just can't think of a justifiable excuse for Verizon prolonging this issue.
If I might speculate a little here…
The lack of this ability is more related to liability than technology. The entertainment industry has lost control of their product and lost (legitimate) control over their intellectual property. As far as I know one provider only (one of the satellite ones) fully allows the off-box-storage under discussion here, if a hard drive once attached to one of their boxes never shows up in China after a copywrite investigation, of if they never get sued over this, maybe other providers will step out into the street. the Legal Eagles not the Geeks own this issue.
(just good speculation)
@G-Pon wrote: If I might speculate a little here…The lack of this ability is more related to liability than technology. The entertainment industry has lost control of their product and lost (legitimate) control over their intellectual property. As far as I know one provider only (one of the satellite ones) fully allows the off-box-storage under discussion here, if a hard drive once attached to one of their boxes never shows up in China after a copywrite investigation, of if they never get sued over this, maybe other providers will step out into the street. the Legal Eagles not the Geeks own this issue.(just good speculation)
I think your speculation is probably pretty accurate. However, why did the federal government require these ports be added to the equipment back in 2004 if they're never going to be activated? But even if the legality is the problem, adding an external drive is only one way of resolving the main issue - lack of storage space. The other way it could be resolved is to offer larger hard disks in the DVRs. As mentioned earlier, I can now buy a 1TB hard drive suitable for video recording for less than $100 in a quantity of just one. And you know the seller is making money on it. So if Motorola was buying them in quantities of 10's or 100's of thousands, they'd cost a lot less than that. Why can't Verizon require Motorola to supply larger hard drives? It can't be a price issue any more (if it ever was!). Giving us larger internal HDs shouldn't expose either company to any more liability than they presently have with the small (by today's standards teeeeny!) hard drives they're giving us now.
Someone should check into what this 2004 federal requirement says. One would think that it stated more than the ports had to be there. It would seem reasonable to assume that it said what they are supposed to do, other than just be there. Maybe they're supposed to be activated by now! (Just a thought...)
Anyway, other TV Signal suppliers (both cable & satellite companies) offer their customers substantially more storage. Why won't Verizon? I really believe it's costing them customers. Some people won't convert to FIOS and others leave because of this major limitation. And then add in the other less serious problems with FIOS - the guide, operating system glitches and lack of features, it has got to be limiting their market penetration. Maybe Verizon needs to look at this as a marketing solution to slower than predicted sales and then they'd do something other than float rumors that they're "looking into it." Right now, I'm paying close to $40/mo for obsolete equipment. Much as I'd hate to go through a change again, at the end of my contract with Verizon, I'm seriously considering switching to a supplier that will honor my legitimate requests for storage space, a decent guide and an operating system that's user friendly and has the features I want. It's what's referred to as a Customer Friendly attitude. Hey, GM, Chrysler and Ford TOLD us what we wanted car wise, and you see how well its working for them! You should pay attention Verizon...
I think FIOS could be great if only Verizon would address the issues its customers have brought to their attention. and they could smooth a lot of ruffled feathers if only they would let us know what and when they planned to address these problems.
Oh well, time to get off my soap box.
And I think the same question goes for the Remote IR Port. Surely there couldn't be an Intellectual Property issue with this?
Why can't that be active?
@speedo123 wrote: I think your speculation is probably pretty accurate. However, why did the federal government require these ports be added to the equipment back in 2004 if they're never going to be activated?
I think your speculation is probably pretty accurate. However, why did the federal government require these ports be added to the equipment back in 2004 if they're never going to be activated?
The FCC requires that every cable company make available one box with functional Firewire, for use with [older] Firewire TVs and D-VHS HDTV VCRs. It doesn't have to be a DVR. The FCC also requires a HDMI connection on new boxes.
The FCC makes does not require USB, eSATA, or any other ports. The FCC does not require any form of drive expansion.
@speedo123 wrote:But even if the legality is the problem, adding an external drive is only one way of resolving the main issue - lack of storage space. The other way it could be resolved is to offer larger hard disks in the DVRs. As mentioned earlier, I can now buy a 1TB hard drive suitable for video recording for less than $100 in a quantity of just one. And you know the seller is making money on it. So if Motorola was buying them in quantities of 10's or 100's of thousands, they'd cost a lot less than that. Why can't Verizon require Motorola to supply larger hard drives? It can't be a price issue any more (if it ever was!). Giving us larger internal HDs shouldn't expose either company to any more liability than they presently have with the small (by today's standards teeeeny!) hard drives they're giving us now.
But even if the legality is the problem, adding an external drive is only one way of resolving the main issue - lack of storage space. The other way it could be resolved is to offer larger hard disks in the DVRs. As mentioned earlier, I can now buy a 1TB hard drive suitable for video recording for less than $100 in a quantity of just one. And you know the seller is making money on it. So if Motorola was buying them in quantities of 10's or 100's of thousands, they'd cost a lot less than that. Why can't Verizon require Motorola to supply larger hard drives? It can't be a price issue any more (if it ever was!). Giving us larger internal HDs shouldn't expose either company to any more liability than they presently have with the small (by today's standards teeeeny!) hard drives they're giving us now.
In another thread, I noted that Motorola charged a ridiculous premium for the 120GB vs 160GB models a few years ago.
More than 2/3 of all DVRs deployed by cable companies in the United States are Motorola DVRs. Can you guess how many have a >160GB hard drive? Zero, zilch, nada. Can you guess how many support eSATA expansion? Zero, zilch, nada.
Every Motorola DVR available to customers in the United States, regardless of provider, features a maximum internal size of 160GB with no functional eSATA expansion. There are unconfirmed reports of a 320GB model being available, but for whatever reason, not a single cable provider has purchased or deployed it. Either it isn't available yet, or it isn't available at a reasonable cost.
Suppose for a moment that a Motorola DVR with a 320GB drive is actually available, albeit at a substantial premium. Do you think Verizon wants to offer a 320GB DVR for $25-30/mo when the competition offers a 160GB DVR for $12-16/mo? Generally, cable providers want to stick with one model at one price to simplify installs and minimize confusion for both installers and end-users.
As far as external drive support, it must work reliably with encryption / DRM so it is acceptable to content providers. Unconfirmed reports from the past suggest that Motorola has not been able to make eSATA drive expansion work reliably with DRM. Users won't tolerate drive expansion if it causes the Motorola DVR to crash constantly. Even DirecTV couldn't make traditional eSATA expansion work reliably, so they took a different approach; when you add a eSATA drive to DirecTV DVR, it completely takes the place of the internal drive, rather than splitting every recording across both the internal and external drive. Perhaps Motorola should look into that.
@speedo123 wrote:Anyway, other TV Signal suppliers (both cable & satellite companies) offer their customers substantially more storage. Why won't Verizon? I really believe it's costing them customers. Some people won't convert to FIOS and others leave because of this major limitation. And then add in the other less serious problems with FIOS - the guide, operating system glitches and lack of features, it has got to be limiting their market penetration. Maybe Verizon needs to look at this as a marketing solution to slower than predicted sales and then they'd do something other than float rumors that they're "looking into it." Right now, I'm paying close to $40/mo for obsolete equipment.
Anyway, other TV Signal suppliers (both cable & satellite companies) offer their customers substantially more storage. Why won't Verizon? I really believe it's costing them customers. Some people won't convert to FIOS and others leave because of this major limitation. And then add in the other less serious problems with FIOS - the guide, operating system glitches and lack of features, it has got to be limiting their market penetration. Maybe Verizon needs to look at this as a marketing solution to slower than predicted sales and then they'd do something other than float rumors that they're "looking into it." Right now, I'm paying close to $40/mo for obsolete equipment.
There are no cable providers that currently offer Motorola or SA DVRs with larger drives than Verizon. Brighthouse, Cablevision, Charter, Comcast, Cox, and Time Warner all use DVRs with a maximum of 160GB internal. Some of these providers use Scientific Atlanta DVRs in select markets, which provide unofficial support for eSATA expansion today. In two test markets, Comcast does allow users to purchase their own Panasonic True2WAY DVR with a 250GB drive for ~$400(?).
Dish Network offers 320GB (ViP622) and 500GB (ViP722) DVRs. DirecTV offers 320GB (HR20/21/22) and just released a 500GB (HR23) DVR. DirecTV charges existing customers a $199 fee up-front to get a DVR, plus a $5.99/mo DVR fee to use it, plus another $5.00/mo if they have a second receiver in their home. DirecTV also requires that any customer activating a DVR extend their service commitment by 1-2 years. The DirecTV DVR must be returned, with no refund, when the user cancels service; if the DVR fails, the user is responsible for buying their own replacement. This is clearly a different business model than used by FiOS; FiOS charges $15.99 to use their DVR, but it has no upfront fee, no commitment, and they'll replace it for free if it goes bad.
Now, the best solution for most customers would be for Verizon to offer a 320GB or 500GB DVR. I expect Verizon to be among the first cable companies to offer DVRs with 320-500GB. I expect this to happen before the year (2009) is out. But until then, it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that higher capacity DVRs are not available for FiOS. Verizon allows customers to buy and use their own HDTV DVR with expansion, just as DirecTV customers can pay to get their own DVR with expansion. Many customers are doing just that with the TivoHD or a Dell Vista Media Center PC.
The TivoHD completely replaces the Verizon DVR and directly supports all FiOS SD and HD channels. It does require a subscription ($12.99/mo, $129/yr, or $399 lifetime), but you do not need to pay any STB or DVR fees to Verizon to use it. The TivoHD does not connect to another box; it only requires one M-CARD ($3.99/mo) from Verizon -- inserted into the card slot in the front -- to support all FiOS channels on both of its tuners. M-CARDs are currently available in at least the following markets: Delaware; Dallas, TX, Portland, OR; Seattle, WA; Long Island, NY; and Washington Metro (N.VA/MD, with most remaining markets slated to get them over the next few months. If M-CARDs are not yet available, two of the older S-CARDs are required.
The standard TivoHD can now be had for $208 shipped (with coupon code AFLTVO208) -- about the same price as a DirecTV DVR. This standard model includes a small 160GB drive, but it supports internal drive upgrades and external eSATA expansion. An user can upgrade the unit with a 500GB DVR drive for about $60, while an upgrade to a 1TB drive costs about $100. TiVo also sells a model called the "TivoHD XL" that comes pre-equipped with a 1TB drive (160+ HD hours); this sells at Amazon for $498.
Aside from internal and external storage expansion, the main advantages of the TivoHD are better usability and reliability, thanks to superior guide data. The TivoHD does not use the guide data supplied by Verizon; every TiVo downloads guide data from its own servers using the ethernet connection (or wireless adapter). The TivoHD also offers a number features not available on the standard FiOS DVR software, including the ability to a) autorecord all programs matching certain criteria; b) completely delete channels you do not watch from the guide, c) download all SD and HD recordings from DVR to your computer for viewing or burning to DVD, d) direct YouTube access, and e) support for Netflix streaming.
The main disadvantage of a TivoHD is that it cannot support FiOS VOD. Only Verizon's own Motorola boxes can support FiOS VOD. If you want access to VOD, you'll still have to rent a Verizon box. Massive storage (160+ HD hours with a 1TB drive) does offset some of the need for VOD, however.
TiVo Functionality Screenshots
Recorded list
Separate Recorded List for children
Season passes (series recordings)
To Do List
Wishlists (autorecord content regardless of date, time, and channel using boolean search)
Remove Channels from GuideProgram Guide: Grid styleProgram Guide: Tivo style
Plug and play eSATA (external drive) expansion
Remote scheduling using mobile phone
Download SD and HD recordings from the DVR using any web browserAutomatically download certain series to your computerAutomatically remove commercials from downloaded recordingsBurn commercial-free to DVD with Dolby Digital 5.1.
Netflix on TiVo
Browse videos on a PC
Automatically transfer videos from PC to TiVo
Access and play music on a PC
Cool TiVo application for MacOSX users
KenAF wrote:In another thread, I noted that Motorola charged a ridiculous premium for the 120GB vs 160GB models a few years ago.More than 2/3 of all DVRs deployed by cable companies in the United States are Motorola DVRs. Can you guess how many have a >160GB hard drive? Zero, zilch, nada. Can you guess how many support eSATA expansion? Zero, zilch, nada. Every Motorola DVR available to customers in the United States, regardless of provider, features a maximum internal size of 160GB with no functional eSATA expansion. There are unconfirmed reports of a 320GB model being available, but for whatever reason, not a single cable provider has purchased or deployed it. Either it isn't available yet, or it isn't available at a reasonable cost. Suppose for a moment that a Motorola DVR with a 320GB drive is actually available, albeit at a substantial premium. Do you think Verizon wants to offer a 320GB DVR for $25-30/mo when the competition offers a 160GB DVR for $12-16/mo? Generally, cable providers want to stick with one model at one price to simplify installs and minimize confusion for both installers and end-users. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF - What I'm suggesting is that with the way the price of large hard drives has come down so drastically, there's no reason that there should be a huge difference in price for a new DVR wirh a reasonably sized drive. They should probably cost less than what the 160G units did when they came out a few years ago. And even if Verizon did HAVE to charge $25 - $30 for a larger capacity unit (while still offering the cheaper unit), I'm sure there are people who would want it. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF wrote:As far as external drive support, it must work reliably with encryption / DRM so it is acceptable to content providers. Unconfirmed reports from the past suggest that Motorola has not been able to make eSATA drive expansion work reliably with DRM. Users won't tolerate drive expansion if it causes the Motorola DVR to crash constantly. Even DirecTV couldn't make traditional eSATA expansion work reliably, so they took a different approach; when you add a eSATA drive to DirecTV DVR, it completely takes the place of the internal drive, rather than splitting every recording across both the internal and external drive. Perhaps Motorola should look into that._______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Should look into that?! They should have done it years ago! (Throw in the GM, Chrysler, Ford reference again!)________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF wrote: There are no cable providers that currently offer Motorola or SA DVRs with larger drives than Verizon. Brighthouse, Cablevision, Charter, Comcast, Cox, and Time Warner all use DVRs with a maximum of 160GB internal. Some of these providers use Scientific Atlanta DVRs in select markets, which provide unofficial support for eSATA expansion today. In two test markets, Comcast does allow users to purchase their own Panasonic True2WAY DVR with a 250GB drive for ~$400(?). Dish Network offers 320GB (ViP622) and 500GB (ViP722) DVRs. DirecTV offers 320GB (HR20/21/22) and just released a 500GB (HR23) DVR. DirecTV charges existing customers a $199 fee up-front to get a DVR, plus a $5.99/mo DVR fee to use it, plus another $5.00/mo if they have a second receiver in their home. DirecTV also requires that any customer activating a DVR extend their service commitment by 1-2 years. The DirecTV DVR must be returned, with no refund, when the user cancels service; if the DVR fails, the user is responsible for buying their own replacement. This is clearly a different business model than used by FiOS; FiOS charges $15.99 to use their DVR, but it has no upfront fee, no commitment, and they'll replace it for free if it goes bad._____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Your info appears to be a little off here. I purchased two Samsung DVRs through eBay for about $50 each, bought two 320GB hard drives for $60 each and installed them in the Samsung units. Added a modified operating system (off the internet) and got new access cards for the units from DirecTV. DirecTV added these units to my package (in place of their units, so not really an additional charge) with no requirement for an extended contract. However, I had seen on a DirecTV forum that some people in other areas did have problems with adding units without signing a long term contract. So, it might depend on which office you're dealing with, what type of deal you can get._____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF wrote:Now, the best solution for most customers would be for Verizon to offer a 320GB or 500GB DVR. I expect Verizon to be among the first cable companies to offer DVRs with 320-500GB. I expect this to happen before the year (2009) is out. But until then, it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that higher capacity DVRs are not available for FiOS. Verizon allows customers to buy and use their own HDTV DVR with expansion, just as DirecTV customers can pay to get their own DVR with expansion. Many customers are doing just that with the TivoHD or a Dell Vista Media Center PC._____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Good to hear, but there's no reason that it should take another year for these larger units to be available. Again, it appears Verizon made a mistake going with Motorola equipment if this is the best they can do._____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF wrote: The TivoHD completely replaces the Verizon DVR and directly supports all FiOS SD and HD channels. It does require a subscription ($12.99/mo, $129/yr, or $399 lifetime), but you do not need to pay any STB or DVR fees to Verizon to use it. The TivoHD does not connect to another box; it only requires one M-CARD ($3.99/mo) from Verizon -- inserted into the card slot in the front -- to support all FiOS channels on both of its tuners. M-CARDs are currently available in at least the following markets: Delaware; Dallas, TX, Portland, OR; Seattle, WA; Long Island, NY; and Washington Metro (N.VA/MD, with most remaining markets slated to get them over the next few months. If M-CARDs are not yet available, two of the older S-CARDs are required. The standard TivoHD can now be had for $208 shipped (with coupon code AFLTVO208) -- about the same price as a DirecTV DVR. This standard model includes a small 160GB drive, but it supports internal drive upgrades and external eSATA expansion. An user can upgrade the unit with a 500GB DVR drive for about $60, while an upgrade to a 1TB drive costs about $100. TiVo also sells a model called the "TivoHD XL" that comes pre-equipped with a 1TB drive (160+ HD hours); this sells at Amazon for $498.________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So as said, equipment and operating systems that can use larger drives are presently available. It can't be that difficult for Motorola/Verizon to supply its customers with such equipment in a reasonable period of time (not the end of 2009!).____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________KenAF wrote:Aside from internal and external storage expansion, the main advantages of the TivoHD are better usability and reliability, thanks to superior guide data. The TivoHD does not use the guide data supplied by Verizon; every TiVo downloads guide data from its own servers using the ethernet connection (or wireless adapter). The TivoHD also offers a number features not available on the standard FiOS DVR software, including the ability to a) autorecord all programs matching certain criteria; b) completely delete channels you do not watch from the guide, c) download all SD and HD recordings from DVR to your computer for viewing or burning to DVD, d) direct YouTube access, and e) support for Netflix streaming. The main disadvantage of a TivoHD is that it cannot support FiOS VOD. Only Verizon's own Motorola boxes can support FiOS VOD. If you want access to VOD, you'll still have to rent a Verizon box. Massive storage (160+ HD hours with a 1TB drive) does offset some of the need for VOD, however.____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Having used the DirecTV version of the TiVo operating system, I know the advantages are really good. You did leave out one other very nice feature Verizon doesn't offer - A multi-room feature that allows you to view what's recorded on any of your DVRs in any room on your other equipment, DVRs included (and at no additional cost). Verizon's multi room feature only allows you to view what's recorded on the Home Media DVR, but only on set top boxes, not other DVRs, and also costs an additional $4/mo. And many of Verizon's sales people don't know this. I was sold the Home Media DVR for the living room with a regular DVR for the bedroom and told I would be able to view the LR recordings in the BR. After installation, when it didn't work, the installer informed me that the feature only works with STBs, not other DVRs.In my opinion, the "main disadvantage" of no VOD is not much of one (for me anyway). I've had FIOS for over 6 months and, although I've gone through the VOD listings several times, I've never used it (not even the free listings), so certainly won't miss it if I switch to TiVo equipment. P.S: Sorry for the mishmash of text here. I couldn't figure out how you managed to split up my message so nicely in your post. ???
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
KenAF - What I'm suggesting is that with the way the price of large hard drives has come down so drastically, there's no reason that there should be a huge difference in price for a new DVR wirh a reasonably sized drive. They should probably cost less than what the 160G units did when they came out a few years ago. And even if Verizon did HAVE to charge $25 - $30 for a larger capacity unit (while still offering the cheaper unit), I'm sure there are people who would want it.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
KenAF wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Should look into that?! They should have done it years ago! (Throw in the GM, Chrysler, Ford reference again!)
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Your info appears to be a little off here. I purchased two Samsung DVRs through eBay for about $50 each, bought two 320GB hard drives for $60 each and installed them in the Samsung units. Added a modified operating system (off the internet) and got new access cards for the units from DirecTV. DirecTV added these units to my package (in place of their units, so not really an additional charge) with no requirement for an extended contract. However, I had seen on a DirecTV forum that some people in other areas did have problems with adding units without signing a long term contract. So, it might depend on which office you're dealing with, what type of deal you can get.
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Good to hear, but there's no reason that it should take another year for these larger units to be available. Again, it appears Verizon made a mistake going with Motorola equipment if this is the best they can do.
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So as said, equipment and operating systems that can use larger drives are presently available. It can't be that difficult for Motorola/Verizon to supply its customers with such equipment in a reasonable period of time (not the end of 2009!).
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Having used the DirecTV version of the TiVo operating system, I know the advantages are really good. You did leave out one other very nice feature Verizon doesn't offer - A multi-room feature that allows you to view what's recorded on any of your DVRs in any room on your other equipment, DVRs included (and at no additional cost). Verizon's multi room feature only allows you to view what's recorded on the Home Media DVR, but only on set top boxes, not other DVRs, and also costs an additional $4/mo. And many of Verizon's sales people don't know this. I was sold the Home Media DVR for the living room with a regular DVR for the bedroom and told I would be able to view the LR recordings in the BR. After installation, when it didn't work, the installer informed me that the feature only works with STBs, not other DVRs.
In my opinion, the "main disadvantage" of no VOD is not much of one (for me anyway). I've had FIOS for over 6 months and, although I've gone through the VOD listings several times, I've never used it (not even the free listings), so certainly won't miss it if I switch to TiVo equipment.
P.S: Sorry for the mishmash of text here. I couldn't figure out how you managed to split up my message so nicely in your post. ???
Seriously, I find it hard to believe that in 2008/2009, a hardware manufacturer puts USB and 1394 ports on a box with NO CAPABILITY to use them? Go to that design trouble and then not use it? Can anyone name another piece of hardware with USB ports that aren't used in this day and age?
Gotta be some kind of vast conspiracy. They don't want DRM or Copyrighted (Copywritten?) materials taken off the boxes. Fine. Just say that. But to come back with "Oh we're working on some future development" just smacks of deception. Or just plain {word filter avoidance} . It's insulting.
But give us the ability to add storage or allow input. Be great to play my home AVI videos on it via a USB Flash Drive.
I guess it was too much to expect from a phone company that has dreams of becoming a cable company.
{please keep it relevant}
*(sigh)*
Bob
@Doc wrote:The 80GB capacity that the hard drive has, IS NOT ENOUGH for any type of long term video storage (especially in HD format).
The FiOS DVR has 160GB. The last two digits of every Motorola DVR indicate the amount of storage; xx12 = 120GB, xx16 = 160GB, and xx32 = 320GB.
Verizon deploys the QIP6416 and QIP7216 DVRs, both of which feature 160GB drives. If you are among the <1% of customers that received a QIP6412 (120GB) by accident, then you should request a swap for the QIP6416 (160GB) model.
@Doc wrote:As long as they are raising THE RATES for H/W rentals in 2009, I want Verizon to turn these ports ON, as this is very frustrating!!! Stop raising prices on equipment that we can't even use in its full capacity. Let us use it as it was DESIGNED to be used, for cryin' out loud!
Unfortunately, Verizon doesn't write the firmware to enable / disable hardware features on the Motorola DVR. That's Motorola's job. Right now, Verizon is using every hardware "feature" that Motorola has enabled. As soon as Motorola enables eSATA, then Verizon can offer that feature.
If you aren't satisfied with the Motorola DVR, then you can always buy your own high-definition TiVo or Moxi DVR for FiOS service. You would need a $3.99/mo CableCard from Verizon for these DVRs. By buying your own, you gain superior guide data and storage expansion, but you lose access to FiOS VOD (unless you keep a Motorola STB for that).
If what everyone says is true - that its Motorola, then Verizon should can Motorola and go with Scientific Atalnta boxes. They do have the ports enabled and Iomega makes some great drives that provide expansion and enable internet based media management for your TV, cable box, and computer.
So, if Scientific Atlanta can do it it can't be a copyright issue. Its either lack of desire, Verison working out how to CHARGE for use of the ports, or some other reason in either one or both companies. Both companies need to get with it because like everyone else, I'm sick and tired of conflicts in my home over lack of recording space for HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well
Instead of specualting, I decied to look in theQIP 6416 Manual on th eMotorola website. Below is the excerpt from the manual relating to the ports -
@newtocable wrote: If what everyone says is true - that its Motorola, then Verizon should can Motorola and go with Scientific Atalnta boxes. They do have the ports enabled and Iomega makes some great drives that provide expansion and enable internet based media management for your TV, cable box, and computer. So, if Scientific Atlanta can do it it can't be a copyright issue. Its either lack of desire, Verison working out how to CHARGE for use of the ports, or some other reason in either one or both companies. Both companies need to get with it because like everyone else, I'm sick and tired of conflicts in my home over lack of recording space for HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Scientific Atlanta boxes are so great, why does Motorola control nearly 70% of the U.S. STB/DVR market? None of which supports eSATA.
The reality is that each platform has trade offs. Clearly, one of the advantages of the SA platform is support for eSATA expansion. But that platform also has its share of disadvantages. These may not be apparent to end users, but they are apparent to the folks writing the software.
If you are curious why Verizon didn't consider SA equipment earlier, the answer is simple. Scientific Atlanta didn't offer hardware with MoCA (networking over coax cable), which is what Verizon uses to deliver guide data and VOD. Scientific Atlanta recently introduced its first hardware with MoCA that can support guide data and VOD on FiOS, but there's one small problem -- the SA hardware platform is completely different and it will not run Verizon's IMG software. Verizon would have to completely rewrite the IMG software to run on SA boxes.
@newtocable wrote: WellInstead of specualting, I decied to look in theQIP 6416 Manual on th eMotorola website. Below is the excerpt from the manual relating to the ports -THIS CLEARLY STATES ITS VERIZON WHO REFUSES TO ACTIVATE THEM. Get with it Verizon. 160GB does not cut it in an HD world.
I was not speculating. I was stating facts.
You are misinterpreting the manual. The hardware suppliers (Motorola and Verizon) write the firmware that supports the hardware and then cable providers have the option of disabling certain features. For example, Scientific Atlanta provides firmware with eSATA support, which a provider can choose to disable if they want. Motorola does not yet provide firmware with functional eSATA support, so there is nothing for Comcast, Verizon, and other providers [that use Motorola equipment] to enable or disable.
Functioning eSATA support that works reliably has proven to be more difficult than Motorola anticipated. Customers will not tolerate the loss of all recordings when their box crashes or reboots.
Scientific Atlanta was able to create a reliable eSATA implementation, but they have a completely different hardware platform. Just because they were able to do it on their platform does not mean that Motorola can do the same on its platform.
Im sorry but i need to say it
In this day and age when i can watch tv on my cell,control my dvr from my pc or cell then no one but no one can't tell me a company the size of MOTOROLA can't enable a port on a hardware device that they engineered , designed and built ... What possible reason could they have figured to use the esata port for other than what we all know its used for ( esata dvdrw maybe yeah right )All the talk about off loading content is null and void since guess what. When u plug the esata hdd used on a sa8300 dvr back into a PC or a Mac it can't see a bleeping file only;y option is format.
When a direct competitor can offer such capability and you can't then its truly pathetic on the part of the manufacturer of said device.
I can't say for sure but imop its all on MOTOROLA'S shoulders cause back when it was discovered that sa8300 dvr could do esata we all waited till our boxes got a new firmware release which coincided with a sa general release. Then 1 by1 all cable co using sa dvr's sent out the firmware to enable it.
I'm aware that the IEEE1394 (a.k.a. "FireWire") ports are intended to be used with a television/monitor that also uses IEEE1394 connections, such as Mitsubishi's WS-65711 Projection TV. However, not all the FiOS channels come out of the STB over that port (most of them are simply black; I went through the whole list and was able to get maybe a quarter of the channels, mostly locals, all of the Music Choice/URGE channels, and then national networks scattered here and there). I have a Polaroid HDTV that also doubles as my computer monitor so I like to have a window open watching TV rather than constantly switching back and forth between video modes.
I have a QIP6200-2 box (non-DVR version of the QIP6400 series), and what I can't record from the firewire port I use a SanDisk V-Mate Video Memory Card Recorder with an IR emitter to record (since most of what I record is intended to be viewed later on my iPod or iPhone; the V-Mate does the conversions for me on the fly).
The intended purpose of a DVR isn't to permanently archive every program you like; it's intended so that you can record a program that you've missed so you can watch it later at your leisure and then go on with your life. The drives in these units are sized with that in mind. If you want to have a permanent copy of your favorite program, support the studio producing it by going out and buying the season DVDs or Blu-Rays when they come out or subscribe to them on iTunes for those programs that are carried there.
I used to live in a house instead of my current apartment, and during that time I was a DirecTV customer. One of the features of the DVR that we had (it was a Samsung with a 120GB hard drive, but no HD) was the ability to play the full program back for recording on a VCR (or, in my case, a DVD recorder), complete with a 10-second title screen that had the name of the program, the program description, and the date/time and channel it was recorded from.
How-do SW,
The whole point of my priginal posting was to escalate the fact that we are being supplied with DV"R"'s to record live TV. We are paying Verizon for the service option, AND... for the rental of the equipment to even watch programs on their (FIOS) network. This equipment ALREADY HAS the ports, and it HAS the capability to extend your video storage built into them (the QIP-6416 does anyway)... and it should be WORKING with no other "optional" equipment purchases needed to make it work. If there's some firware upgrade for this, then get it done, and roll it out for Pete's sake! Well, that's not how it is. Hence, the problem...
I don't have money (that I'm already spending for a service) to buy another extemporaneous solution to this issue. I don't know about you, but when I record something, I want to keep it around as long as possible, if not permanently. Otherwise, what's the point? Sure, you can "buy" the DVD/BR. I expect that everyone would want that, if not only just for convenience sake. True, you CAN record what you are watching and/or recording to a DVD-R or RW (or some other ext. medium) while you're watching it. However, this is somewhat tedious, time-consuming, and defeats the whole purpose of MASS video storage.
* MORAL: We, as paying customers, should be able to connect a video extender to our STB DVRs to increase our storage capacity, and in case something happens to the internal hard drive! Does anyone else agree with that? I would hope so.
@swbuehler wrote: The intended purpose of a DVR isn't to permanently archive every program you like; it's intended so that you can record a program that you've missed so you can watch it later at your leisure and then go on with your life. The drives in these units are sized with that in mind. If you want to have a permanent copy of your favorite program, support the studio producing it by going out and buying the season DVDs or Blu-Rays when they come out or subscribe to them on iTunes for those programs that are carried there.
These drives are sized for non hd video if all i recorded was sd then i have no complaint but since this is a hd dvr and verizon plasters the hd content all over the place then the least they can do is supply us the abilty to use larger storage space. I work night sometimes and can miss a few episodes of recorded shows easliy. I try to catch up on weekends but i constantly have to keep an eye on the dvr for no space issues. Forghet about it if i record a game or 2 160 gig on a HD DVR is pathetically too small.
@swbuehler wrote: The intended purpose of a DVR isn't to permanently archive every program you like; it's intended so that you can record a program that you've missed so you can watch it later at your leisure and then go on with your life. The drives in these units are sized with that in mind. If you want to have a permanent copy of your favorite program, support the studio producing it by going out and buying the season DVDs or Blu-Rays when they come out or subscribe to them on iTunes for those programs that are carried there.I agree with you. But keep in mind this is 2009. 160 gig hard drive just does not cut it now. I have had to delete movies before getting to watch them because there is just no space on the dvr for all my shows. When you are talking HD a DVR needs at least a 300 to 500 gig hd. This isn't to archive every program but it is to get through a week or more pf programming without having things erase for needed space. Hd changed things and it should change a 160 gig hd to a 320 gig hd. Verizon must begin to upgrade their DVR's.
I agree with you. But keep in mind this is 2009. 160 gig hard drive just does not cut it now. I have had to delete movies before getting to watch them because there is just no space on the dvr for all my shows. When you are talking HD a DVR needs at least a 300 to 500 gig hd. This isn't to archive every program but it is to get through a week or more pf programming without having things erase for needed space. Hd changed things and it should change a 160 gig hd to a 320 gig hd. Verizon must begin to upgrade their DVR's.
Vinny:
I sort of agree with your argument. However, I don't have HD so don't record in it. I still have the same problem- NOt Enough Disk Space!. I have to frequently go through the recordings and cull out stuff so there's room for new stuff. And often I'm deleting movies or shows I haven't gotten to see yet. If I don't do this, the DVR will start deleting and it seems to always select those shows or movies that I would NOT have erased.
With DirecTV, I upgraded my owned DVRs with larger hard drives - ~400GB. That was just ample for SD recording (didn't have the above hassle very often, but still had it every once in a while). Although that much disk space would certainly be better, it is still way too small for practical HD recording. With 1 TB drives now at retail for less than $100, it makes no sense to go with anything smaller. But the problem hasn't been what size to go to, it's been getting Verizon/Motorola to go with ANY size increase.
This debate has been going on for years and still there's been no official (or otherwise I think!) word about when/if we can get larger units. It's a hell of a way to treat your customers!
If it can't get Motorola to respond to a legitimate equipment request,why doesn't Verizon offer TiVo units as an option? I don't really care about VOD so that's not a drawback for me. And I'm sure there are many more customers who feel this way too.
Come on Verizon, do something for your customers! (That's besides ignoring our requests as you have been doing!).
Don't know if the moderators will let this message show - I hope they do. I am not bad mouthing Verizon - rather I offer solution:
There is an elegant solution to the DVR recording capacity problm: Get a TiiVO DVR!
I don't work for TiiVO - I am a potential Verizon FiOS customer. I have seen a lot of complaints about the Vrizon STB and DVR (bad/slow user interface, limited functionality, can't expand capacity - the works!), so I did some research and discovered that you can connect a TiiVO DVR instead of the Verizon DVR. You get a much better user interface (TiiVO DVRs consistently get the best reviews), and you can easily add an external hard disk with an eSATA interface (which is a lot faster that USB 2.0 High-speed!). You do have to pay for the TiiVO equipment (both an equipment fee - $300 for an HD DVR, and a monthly service fee - or $400 lifetime, but you can save money on both by purchasing from one of the power sellers on eBayy that specialize in TiiVO equipment. You will have to pay Verizon a fee for a Cable Card(s) which plug into the TiiVO DVR and allow access to the services you purchase from Verizon, but overall you will pay about the same for a better user experience.
Has this been resolved yet?
Is there a way to add a additiona harddrive, use Media Manager to store to PC, get newer model that has larger harddrive?
@BritInAshburn wrote: Has this been resolved yet?Is there a way to add a additiona harddrive, use Media Manager to store to PC, get newer model that has larger harddrive?
No Motorola DVRs support storage expansion and that will not change soon. Verizon has no plans to support storage on a computer with their own DVRs.
Verizon does plan to offer more storage expansion options before the end of this year. This may come in the form of a new DVR with a larger hard drive, a DVR that supports external drive expansion, or both. Customers can wait for those options to become available, or they can buy their own CableCard DVR with storage expansion (TivoHD or Moxi) for use with FiOS service.
Verizon does some have some exciting announcements (non-DVR) coming later this month. Stay tuned.
