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HD programs being shown in 4:3 AR that should be widescreen

This evening I noticed that on at least two HD channels -- our local Fox (ch 508) and CW (ch 512) affiliates -- all of the programming is coming through in regular 4:3 TV aspect ratio instead of widescreen. The programs should be widescreen -- they are brand-new episodes of series that we DVR in widescreen every week -- and they are just showing black bars. It's not my TV or STB settings because the commercials still show normally in widescreen! Also, other HD channels do not seem to be having this problem.

I would blame Fox or CW except that it's not just one channel, so it's something about my FioS service.

Anyone else notice this? Maybe it's just in my area?

Comments

Nozirev

I spoke with customer support and they absolutely insisted that both FOX and CW must be broadcasting HD shows in Standard Definition tonight, and they have nothing to do with it whatsoever. So two completely separate television networks just spontaneously decided to show some of their top shows (like Top Model on FOX) in SD at exactly the same time, for no apparent reason. I'm not buying it. I will look around the web to see if other people are saying these shows were in SD tonight and post an update when I find out anything.

UPDATE: nothing in twitter about the shows not being in widescreen. still looking around... anyone else have any info?

Justin46

You didn't identify the specific programs and you haven't told us where you are located, but my experience tonight here in North Texas after seeing your posts:

FOX (504): Hell's Kitchen in 16:9, no bars.

CW (509): America's Next Top Model in 4:3, with bars.

I don't normally watch either program so I don't know if that is normal or abnormal. But in reading lots of threads on this subject over the last 5 years since I got FiOS TV, the fault apparently is almost always with the local afflilliate, not Verizon, they either forget to "flip the switch" so the signal is sent to Verizon in 16:9, or they have (or think they have) a signal quality problem and consciously decide to send it in 4:3. If you have an external antennna, the next time you see something like this on a local channel (as opposed to a cable channel) you might try tuning the local HD channel and see what they are broadcasting over the air, might give a clue as to where the problem lies.

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
QIP6416-P1, IMG 1.8, Build 02.54
Keller, TX 76248

Nozirev

Thanks for an informative response Justin. What you said about those two programs backs up what I observed here in the Boston area -- Hell's Kitchen was wide, Top Model was not. I think your explanation is very plausible, but it seems like an awfully big coincidence that an HD show on CW was in standard-def size at exactly the same time, when I have never noticed this sort of thing in the last 5 or so years I have had HD programming. But since I know nothing about how the local stations are fed to Verizon there could easily be some other technical reason -- perhaps some of the local stations are aggregated into a combined service in some way, etc.

I have to say, your response was much more helpful than the Verizon support person's. They didn't even take a stab at explaining -- all they said was things like "it has nothing to do with us" and "we aren't FOX, we don't control it" in response to everything I said. It sounded exactly like what you would say if you knew what the problem was and was told not to discuss it with customers -- it really got my imagination running wild.

spacedebris

@Nozirev wrote:
I have to say, your response was much more helpful than the Verizon support person's. They didn't even take a stab at explaining -- all they said was things like "it has nothing to do with us" and "we aren't FOX, we don't control it" in response to everything I said. It sounded exactly like what you would say if you knew what the problem was and was told not to discuss it with customers -- it really got my imagination running wild.

Well actually, in a way that is exactly what they are likely doing. They know what the problem likely is but they just have to say "Its not our issue" and leave it at that. They cant speculate as to the cause because unless the channel notifies them and gives them a precise answer, they are not supposed to discuss other companies. They are told to just say "Verizon is working" and leave it at that. Frustraiting but that seems to be the way they roll.

Hubrisnxs

Just to be clear.

You will not always get a stretched 16X9 image on an HD channel just because you have a wide screen tv.

There are some stations that still broadcast in HD quality but in 4:3 Aspect ratio.

that is a decision made by the broadcaster and not verizon FiOS.

FiOS does not alter the picture source from the manufacturer at this time.

What I tend to find are day time shows on HD channels may or may not have black bars on the side and that, to me is based on viewing audience. If they are putting on a game show for example, you are more likely to see the black bars, then say, if you were watching a movie. a movie almost always is in full screen because that is the audience type and that is what looks best for the movie. some game shows are almost exclusively targeted towards an audience that may or may not have large widescreen tv's.

For example, in the United States the television program The Price is Right most frequently airs from 11 a.m. to Noon. The commercials on it (besides the use of product placement in the show itself) are often for things like arthritis pain relievers and diapers. This indicates that the target demographics are senior citizens and parents with young children.

It would stand to reason that that same target audience may have older 4:3 aspect ratio televisions, and thus the broadcaster - broadcasts in 4:3 for that reason.

If you're watching independence day, then most likely that will be wide screen.

It also depends on how the show was filmed. 4:3 is the AR for 35 mm film used in the silent era and used today in tv show tapings. so it depends on a lot of things. One thing will be a constant, is that Verizon isn't altering the HD feed, and unfortunately their box won't alter HD feeds in that respect. all you can tell the box to do is 720p vs 1080i.

Your TV, however, can fill in the rest if it has the feature to do so.

Hubrisnxs

Here's a really decent pair of threads regarding the black bars, if you're bored or want to know more, just follow the links.

FAQ - Black Bars - High Definition and DVDs (Also, Enhanced for Widescreen)

4:3 HD Programmes:

There are black bars on the sides of 4:3 programming that has been "upconverted" by the network for the HD channel. These black bars are actually part of the image, so most TVs and STBs are not able to stretch the image to remove the black bars. Often, the only way to eliminate these bars is to watch the same programme on a standard definition channel - you will then be able to utilize your stretch modes.

Here is a companion piece to the above post called (FAQ - Widescreen TV Stretch Modes)

Note regarding stretching of HD inputs.

Many HDTVs cannot properly stretch HD (1080i, 720P) signals (A few models can stretch 1080i, 720P). Therefore some HDTVs cannot eliminate the black bars on 4:3 upconverted signals, or those that come from some STBs like the SA3100HD which convert all component video output to 1080i. You need to watch an SD channel and connect the STB via composite or S-video connections to another input to be able to properly stretch the SD channels. Some STBs have this capability built in.

I think IMDB will show you what kind of film the show or movie was done in, and you can kinda figure it out from there.

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