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Just got Fios triple play; my old Toshiba dvr no longer gets reception

Hi...

We just had Fios tv installed today. I had asked several times before ordering if regular broadcast channels could still be viewed on my old Toshiba dvr and tvs with QAM tuners, and I was assured yes repeatedly.

After installation, with a lot of fiddling I could get to see a few channels on the equipment but every time I turn the tvs and the dvr off, they seem to completely lose any sense of what channels are where.

So if it is possible to view regular broadcast channels (CBS, ABC, NBC, etc) wihtout a Verizon tuner, how does one go about it?

Thanks

Mark

Comments

prisaz

@mmodrall wrote:
Hi...
We just had Fios tv installed today. I had asked several times before ordering if regular broadcast channels could still be viewed on my old Toshiba dvr and TV's with QAM tuners, and I was assured yes repeatedly.
After installation, with a lot of fiddling I could get to see a few channels on the equipment but every time I turn the tvs and the dvr off, they seem to completely lose any sense of what channels are where.
So if it is possible to view regular broadcast channels (CBS, ABC, NBC, etc) without a Verizon tuner, how does one go about it?
Thanks
Mark

Their is no way Verizon can guarantee QAM compatibility with every manufacture and device. Or how they work. Only that their system will supply the channels in the clear format.

You will need either a Verizon set top box, digital video recorder, or a CableCard enabled device.

Your QAM devices needs to be able to scan for the QAM channels and store the locations, which could be at random, or change at random. The FCC rule states that public broadcast, or what you might call local channels, be transmitted in the clear. No encryption. But to receive any of the channels that are subscription channels, in the different programming tiers, you will need either a Verizon set top box, digital recorder, or a CableCard enabled device such as a TiVO. If you use a non Verizon device to receive the channels, you will not have the advance Verizon features, such as their img, Channel Guide, Video On Demand, Caller ID, Remote DVR Access, Widgets, etc. Back to Cable Card or digital cable ready devices that accept CableCards. In 2010 Verizon started using a feature called Simulcrypt which is part of the CableCard standard. I believe the card rental is $3.99 each, though it may have changed. Here are links from a search regarding card compatibility. With Various postings for 2010 and more.

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?filter=location&location=forum-board%3AFiOS_TV&q=crypt#/?location=forum-board%25253AFiOS_TV&q=Simulcrypt&search_type=thread&filter=location

Here is a thread that specifically talks about older equipment and Simulcrypt. If you have an older CableCard device these issues may apply. If you have only a standard QAM tuner, you will need a device to get the subscribed channels. If you have a TV that is DCR enabled (Digital Cable Ready), it too may accept a card, depending on it's age, it may or may not be compatible with Simulcrypt with or without a firmware upgrade. Your devices may or may not work with a Cable Card without knowing the specifics or each model.

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-TV-Technical-Assistance/What-is-going-to-happen-with-cable-cards-on-10-12-2010/m-p/237105/highlight/true#M22008

mmodrall1

What I had asked the sales people and asked here in the forums before we switched to Fios tv was whether my tvs and dvrs with qam tuners could get the basic broadcast channels without a converter box. I was assured in all instances "Yes." You even said so in the middle of all your "No" statements.

What I am finding is that I'm *not* getting the basic broadcast channels reliably without a converter box.

You say the channel assignments may change... Okay I get that. What's weird is that they are changing minute to minute from what I'm seeing.

All my tvs and dvr have the ability to scan and remember the scan but A) with Comcast the scan wasn't necessary; if we lost power, we just turned on the tvs and the basic channels were all there and ready to go and with Fios it doesn't appear that scanning and remembering is good for anything since the channels that show up are fluctuating minute to minute.

Channels 2 (WGBH) and 5 (ABC) in particular are all over the map. Unfortunately, WGBH and ABC are the channels we had the most interest in recording.

You do a scan and you can see something. Hit channel + and channel - to come back and either nothing comes in anymore or some completely different channel is coming in there. Turn the tv or dvr off and on again and it's the same deal: what's on a given channel is not determinate as it was with Comcast. With Verizon Fios tv, channel + from 2-1 gets up to 2-63945 (you read that right) sometimes. What are in those 63,945 options appears to be pretty random commercial channels. Go to channel 4 and hit channel -, and 2-2 is the top choice.

I would prefer not to be extorted by either Comcast or Verizon into having to rent their "secret sauce" equipment for monthly fees just to watch/record basic broadcast channels. I was assured by both vendors the extra equipment wasn't required for basic broadcast channels. The difference I see, so far, is that Comcast was telling the truth; Verizon doesn't appear to be.

Frankly setting up a system where you have to pay an extra $10/month to rent a "secret sauce" tuner capable of recording basic broadcast channels (or $4/mo to rent a card to plug into your own equipment for the same purpose) is extortionate and unnecessary. Other countries don't have these problems.

My wife and I also didn't need the extra 200+ channels; between internet streaming and basic broadcast we were pretty well entertained. The only reason we added Fios tv was because they jacked the price of the (internet, phone) double play up so that it was the same price as the triple play (which is kind of crazy in it's own right; we *have* to take the extra 200+ channels because they'll charge us the same either way) We faced a 60% price increase for the double play service we were happy with, or for the same money we could get 200+ more channels - of which we were interested in maybe 5 or 6. If it weren't for the tv service screwing up our regular habits of recording Newshour and a couple random regular broadcast channels we'd be moderately happy.

As it is, now we've had extra service shoved down our throats and the repeated reassurances that Fios tv wouldn't screw with our old habits of regular broadcast viewing are proving false.

We were quite happy with our (internet|phone) deal at $55/mo. In one month the price of that package was going to ~$86/month the same nominal price as the triple play. We though if we were going to get screwed we might as well get a little extra for it. We'd dump Comcast's basic broadcast package and get the Fios triple play.

So you're basic response is that to record PBS or ABC we should be paying Verizon an extra $20/month for the privilege. If you can't see how screwed up that is, you must be a Verizon flak. At least I hope you're getting payed for it.

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