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Netflix is slow lately on FIOS

For the past few weeks I am intermittently getting only 1-2 bars on the bandwidth meter for the XBOX Netflix app, which I think means it is ~1-2Mbps.

I have a 35/35Mbps plan with FIOS, so it should be getting HD all the time. (it used to until recently).

Are others having this problem lately? Is it a FIOS issue or is Netflix downgrading their service for any customers not on OpenConnect ISPs?

Comments

walt178

@glugglug wrote:
For the past few weeks I am intermittently getting only 1-2 bars on the bandwidth meter for the XBOX Netflix app, which I think means it is ~1-2Mbps.
I have a 35/35Mbps plan with FIOS, so it should be getting HD all the time. (it used to until recently).
Are others having this problem lately? Is it a FIOS issue or is Netflix downgrading their service for any customers not on OpenConnect ISPs?

How is your video quality? If it's OK, don't worry about the number of bars. 35Mbps is not required for HD. If the quality is poor, try a different site for comparison.

I stream HD video on a daily basis and the actual connect speed varies. Last night it varied between 1Mbps to 10Mbps on my laptop. But the quality was high throughout and I did not notice any difference in quality when the connect speed changed. When streaming on my BluRay player the connect speed is higher, but the video quality isn't any better. HD is HD.

I'm not an expert in this area, but my best guess is that the actual connect speed is based, to some extent, on server load and what is needed, not how much you can handle. And what is needed for HD video is much less than what your plan allows for.

Namronorman

It's been slow for me as well. Playing anything in HD after 8pm ET is almost impossible. Calling and talking to Verizon tech support has been completely fruitless. They have been unwilling to assist me in identifying the issue nor have they been willing to talk to Netflix with me. My neighbor on comcast and a few friends on comcast and TWC are having zero issues. If it's not one thing, it's another.

As always, don't expect much. I plan on calling billing later today when I have a chance.

[Deleted User]

Hi Namronorman,

Please go to your profile page for the forum by clicking on your name, and look at the top of the middle column where you will find an area titled "My Private Support Cases". There you will find a link to the private board where you and the agent may exchange information. This should be checked on a frequent basis, as the agent may be waiting for information from you before they can proceed with any actions. Please keep all correspondence regarding your issue in the private support portal.

Namronorman

I was discussing this issue privately with Matt R until about 90 minutes ago when he stopped responding. I can't stream Netflix HD at the moment. Looks like it went south pretty fast this evening Man Frustrated

glugglug

When it drops to 1-2 bars, the quality is pretty crappy.

Seems to be better again since yesterday...

Other sites have more consistent bandwidth. Some bittorrents get > 50Mbps. The problem lately has been specific to Netflix.

walt178

I suspect this is going to become a recurring problem on video streaming sites. As more and more people begin to use their service there may be a lag in providng adequate server capacity.

Last night I expererinced a rare slow connect speed on Amazon Prime. (The slowest I've seen in over two years.) Speed tests and other sites indicated no problem. Even on YouTube HD streaming was great. Back to Amazon: still slow. About 2 hours later Amazon was back to normal. Hopefully, a one time glitch rather than an omen of things to come.

Namronorman

About a week or so ago and before, it appeared that all netflix videos were being served to Verizon FiOS customers via Telia Sonera and Telia Sonera alone. During that time, packet loss seemed to be rather high with anything that was being served over Telia. Now, with Netflix much improved at all hours, it appears that Netflix is being streamed via Telia, XO, Sprint, and others.

With the additional peering points in place, I am now able to stream HD again even during peak hours. It does seem a BIT slow this evening but still capable of 3mbit HD.

mm112

Verizon is currently involved in a very ugly battle with cogent communications a large provider of bandwith that is necessary to be able to stream anything from netflix. The battle between verizon and cogent comunications is over "peering" which is something that two bandwith providers like verizon and cogent communications have to come to an agreement over so that you can stream content as it should be streamed. Another reason for some of the slow streaming has to do with the fact that verizon came to an agreement with redbox to stream their content for fios customers so netflix is angry about the fact that verizon is doing business with netflix's competitor redbox. If you want more details about what is going on then google "gigaom verizon" and see for yourself what is going on where verizon's p r person just released a statement about the battle between verizon and cogent communications over netflix content.

Namronorman

And we're back to a slow Netflix experience with constant buffering and no HD 🙂

Namronorman

http://i.imgur.com/gfyByFf.jpg <- FiOS quality streaming!

smith6612

@Namronorman wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/gfyByFf.jpg <- FiOS quality streaming!

I hate to be a bit hindsighted here, knowing there has been some congestion issues lately but, since you've brought that window up I figured I'd mention it. Why not set the movie to stream at the max quality (3500) and let it buffer up for a few minutes? I did that a while back on a shoddy cable connection and it played back fine. Yeah, I know you shouldn't have to do that on FiOS 🙂

Verizon_Support

Namronorman,

We have closed your private support case at this time. If any other issues arise, please feel free to create a new post.

Thanks,

Paul C.

Namronorman

@Verizon_Support wrote:
Namronorman,
We have closed your private support case at this time. If any other issues arise, please feel free to create a new post.
Thanks,
Paul C.

Please note that the support case was closed without resolution from Verizon. I have filed a complaint with the BBB.

Namronorman

Hope no one wanted to watch Netfix in HD this evening 🙂

anonFios

Looks like Netflix quality isn't the only thing Verizon is allowing to degrade:

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-Internet/Is-it-me-or-youtube-being-slow-at-times/m-p/596349/highlight/true#M39378

anonFios

Could barely hold HD for more than a couple of seconds at a time last night between 9 and 11pm EST.

I am in the Greater Boston / Massachusetts market.

prisaz

I have no issues with netflix, and you can't always blame everything on Verizon. If you really want to see what ports are open for your stream. When streaming a video, open a command prompt and execute netstat -f and it will show you the FQDN that the ports are open to. If you want the options for that command, execute netstat -? some simple basic network commands will tell you much about where your computer is actually connecting. Then trace to that point.

This is a trace to just one of multiple servers.

C:\Windows\system32>tracert ipv4_1.lagg0.c018.iad001.ix.nflxvideo.net

Tracing route to ipv4_1.lagg0.c018.iad001.ix.nflxvideo.net [108.175.35.137]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms moat1.localnet [192.168.2.1]
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms FWDR-192.FWDR-168.FWDR-1.FWDR-1 [192.168.1.1]
3 77 ms 36 ms 122 ms L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-69.verizon-gni.net [x.x.x.x]
4 5 ms 7 ms 7 ms G0-8-1-2.WASHDC-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.219.146]
5 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms so-12-1-0-0.RES-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.151.230]
6 7 ms 5 ms 5 ms 0.xe-5-1-2.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.7.241]
7 8 ms 10 ms 10 ms TenGigE0-4-2-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.254]
8 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42]
9 49 ms 48 ms * netflix-ic-156694-ash-bb1.c.telia.net [213.248.101.26]
10 20 ms 20 ms 58 ms ipv4_1.lagg0.c018.iad001.ix.nflxvideo.net [108.175.35.137]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>

You may notice some latency between alter.net and the customer peering point. If the customer don't pay for it, it isn't free. The customer being Netflix. Netflix is providing a pay for video feed, which is a business to make money. Well look at it this way, Verizon does the same thing, and it is VOD. Should a company provide free bandwidth to their competition. Verizon too is an entertainment provider. If Netflix starts dropping feeds, they will start dropping customers. I have told Netflix to pound sand three different times. A couple times for content, and once for quality of the feed. Now a few years later, I figured I would give them another shot, since I am running a 100% Microsoft Media Center setup with various extenders.

I noticed multiple connections open for the video.

prisaz

Also based on that last post, it looks like Verizon does have some latency on their network, so it could be a combination of things. 3 77 ms 36 ms 122 ms L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-69.verizon-gni.net [x.x.x.x]

I would say the best way to see, would be to tracert to the streaming servrs when you strt having issues. Then you will know.

Non prime time?

3 2 ms 2 ms 6 ms L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-69.verizon-gni.net [71.127.53.1]
4 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms G0-8-1-2.WASHDC-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.219.146]
5 151 ms 7 ms 5 ms so-12-1-0-0.RES-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.151.230]
6 7 ms 5 ms 5 ms 0.xe-4-1-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.2.249]
7 10 ms 9 ms 11 ms TenGigE0-6-4-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.35.145]
8 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42]
9 44 ms 44 ms 46 ms netflix-ic-156694-ash-bb1.c.telia.net [213.248.101.26]
10 5 ms 44 ms 6 ms ipv4_1.lagg0.c018.iad001.ix.nflxvideo.net [108.175.35.137]

Trace complete.

Namronorman

Prisaz,

Verizon has already stated that it is allowing peering points with Cogent to become saturated due to a business dispute with them. Cogent is one of the bigger providers of Netflix streaming content.

novajeff

Agreed. This is garbage. I love watching Netflix in about 8 pixels of total resolution on my tv. Thanks FiOS! Can't quite muster anything over 0.9 Mbps out of my 50/50 connection. That's good work!

anonFios

This is seriously ridiculous. When I come home at night I want to be able to relax and stream from Netflix in HD and this is not happening.

I am seriously considering canceling my Fios service, Verizon. I do have other options.

Namronorman

@anonFios wrote:
This is seriously ridiculous. When I come home at night I want to be able to relax and stream from Netflix in HD and this is not happening.

I am seriously considering canceling my Fios service, Verizon. I do have other options.

I agree. I've got a complaint in with the BBB in addition to the attorney general and am awaiting response. If in the event nothing comes of either, I fully intend to just file in small claims and seek a refund of what I've paid already. I'll be darned if I have to pay an ETF for crap service.

Namronorman

Netflix is still running like crap. I can say at least that it took until about 9pm for it to take a nose dive vs. the typical 4-5pm ET.

anonFios

Verizon really needs to do something soon instead of continuing to provide customers with terrible service.

mm112

What is very interesting about this verizon cogent communications fight is that neither party admits to having done anything wrong. I remember comcast had a similar battle with cogent where what ended up happening is that the fcc had to step in to see if in fact comcast was intentionally denying their customers access to certain content because of a potential financial gain that could be had for comcast. I think that comcast customers also made a ton of complaints on the fcc website about the peering issue between comcast and cogent communications where the fcc eventually forced them to settle. If you want more details about it google "comcast cogent fcc." Redbox would benefit from the verizon cogent fight in more ways than one and people need to be reminded that redbox is a company that was created by the former vice president of netflix who thought that he could come up with a better way of getting people to watch movies. His goal was to prove that his previous employer netflix was wrong in the way they were doing things and beat them at their own game in the dvd rental and movie streaming business.

IanBruce

I live in the Boston area and Netflix has become unwatchable, especially in prime time. This is really infuriating, especially since we recently increased our internet speed. Verizon have no clear answer when you ask about this. Very, very dissapointing service.

Namronorman

Wow, Netflix is actually working this evening; however, YouTube can't stream 480p or greater without constant buffering. Can't have your cake and eat it!

Namronorman

I'm sorry, but is there no update on this? This issue continues to persist and is getting old really fast.

KnowMad

I'm recently upset with Netflix performance as well. Apparently this is due to Business side decisions by Verizon

Please read http://gigaom.com/2013/06/17/having-problems-with-your-netflix-you-can-blame-verizon/

Cut it out Verizon!

Namronorman

@KnowMad wrote:
I'm recently upset with Netflix performance as well. Apparently this is due to Business side decisions by Verizon
Please read http://gigaom.com/2013/06/17/having-problems-with-your-netflix-you-can-blame-verizon/
Cut it out Verizon!

Correct. It all started in May and seemed to happen overnight. They also started to advertise Redbox Instant to their customers that very same month. Isn't that weird?

db909

Yeah this is definitely a FIOS issue. I moved this past month about 20 miles and went from Suddenlink 10/2 to FIOS 50/25. Netflix on FIOS has been terrible since day 1. It was better on Suddenlink 10/2 which is kind of sad. The speed for everything else has been great on FIOS.

Namronorman

@db909 wrote:
Yeah this is definitely a FIOS issue. I moved this past month about 20 miles and went from Suddenlink 10/2 to FIOS 50/25. Netflix on FIOS has been terrible since day 1. It was better on Suddenlink 10/2 which is kind of sad. The speed for everything else has been great on FIOS.

If Suddenlink is still available in your area and you're within 30 days, my suggestion is to cancel immediately if you want to avoid an early termination fee.

anonFios

Any update...?

Namronorman

Bad news:

Still running terrible. I'm wondering if this is a combination of Cogent and BPON networks becoming overly saturated.

WinMTR statistics

Host	%	Sent	Recv	Best	Avrg	Wrst	Last
firewall.*.com	0	29347	29347	0	0	2	0
108.39.200.1	1	29325	29321	2	5	1854	4

MTR data from roughly midnight to 9am from my network to the local verizon gateway. Latency spikes and packet loss. Sounds like a problem to me, no?

Good news:

I'm no longer under contract with Verizon 🙂

anonFios

I streamed Netflix in high definition ALL NIGHT LONG and it was wonderful!

Now if only I could do the same thing on Verizon Fios...

mm112

People need to pay close attention to what is going on in a lawsuit between verizon and the fcc because what is at stake is the future of the internet where customers who pay for internet service while they also pay for access to certain websites could be the ones who end up losing big time based on what that decision is. If the isps win then that means that they can pick and choose which websites they will make it impossible for their customers to have access to simply because they are not getting paid and if the fcc wins they will now have a legal ruling that they can use to go after a isp if their customers complain about being intentionally throttled to favor those own isp's paid services. What is at stake is not only the future of the internet but also what customers use right now. Google, youtube (who is owned by google), hulu, amazon, and netflix are just a few of the websites who online users could be complaining a lot more about not having access to if the decision goes the way the isps want it to go. From that point on it really will be a guessing game as to which isp is feuding with a certain website all because the isp is not getting paid by that webiste because their customers want access to it. Google "verizon fcc" to read more about what is going on. People need to hope that if the isps win the use of the internet will not be made to be so difficult that people will not even want to turn on their computers any more because of the insanity of isps choosing to discriminate against websites to allow their users access to them and if they do that the experience will not be so bad that it will make people want to switch to another provider only to go through that same experience all over again after they have signed a 2 year contract.

dschlic1

I am having an issue with Netflix and Verizon FIOS. I have performed speed tests both using the Verizon speed test and also two other independent speed test websites. All have reported 15/5 speed. Netflix is reporting my connection speed as 3 Mbps. However when I start a video the initial speed as shown in task manager, is around 15 Mbps. Then after 10 to 15 seconds the speed drops way down. The HD button never shows on the screen.

The only thing I can say is that it looks like an issue between Verizon and Netflix. Both are accusing the other of the problem.

Namronorman

Well, you can only point your finger at others so many times before you make it back to yourself. Verizon is pointing the finger at the likes of LLNW, Akamai, and Level3 now. I seriously doubt they're having issues on THEIR end. Also, it doesn't help that Verizon has its own "competing" product now in addition to the fact that the current CEO could not care less about wired services when there's so much money to be made in wireless.

ericjbyu

I have this problem most of the time lately. It is very frustrating. I wish Verizon would do something about it

PCTechNJ

I just got done with tech support with both Netflix and Verizon .. whom are pretty much pointing the finger at each other. I have (3) devices that will randomly stream HD (and sometimes SuperHD). However, the past 3 days have been terrible and Netflix is constantly stuck at 480p resolution.

I've reboot and reset the router (just for giggles). My PC is hardwired, no HD, while my PS3 and WiiU won't even get HD. The only time I got SuperHD running was Christmas day.

Its completely frustrating.

Vikingdude1

I have experiencing this a lot. In fact I was convinced that I should upgrade my router and then it would be fixed. I now have upgraded my router have my blu-ray plugged into the router and Netflix still only gets 1-2 mbpps and is constantly buffering. Amazon runs fine though. Thoughts?

Namronorman

@Vikingdude wrote:
I have experiencing this a lot. In fact I was convinced that I should upgrade my router and then it would be fixed. I now have upgraded my router have my blu-ray plugged into the router and Netflix still only gets 1-2 mbpps and is constantly buffering. Amazon runs fine though. Thoughts?

Switch ISPs if there's an alternative in your area. If no other options available, try a VPN or something. Netflix is using quality transit these days and Verizon is answering by letting peering points between them and Level 3 become saturated.

db909

@Namronorman wrote:
@Vikingdude wrote:
I have experiencing this a lot. In fact I was convinced that I should upgrade my router and then it would be fixed. I now have upgraded my router have my blu-ray plugged into the router and Netflix still only gets 1-2 mbpps and is constantly buffering. Amazon runs fine though. Thoughts?
Switch ISPs if there's an alternative in your area. If no other options available, try a VPN or something. Netflix is using quality transit these days and Verizon is answering by letting peering points between them and Level 3 become saturated.

I'd suggest the VPN route, dslreports is full of people complaining about netflix on virtually every ISP. It seems to be where you are and not the ISP, so swapping ISPs may accomplish nada.

Namronorman

@db909 wrote:
I'd suggest the VPN route, dslreports is full of people complaining about netflix on virtually every ISP. It seems to be where you are and not the ISP, so swapping ISPs may accomplish nada.

Depending on the ISP, yes. I frequent DSLReports too much. If Vikingdude doesn't like what Verizon is doing and an alternative ISP is comparable in most ways plus is an OpenConnect partner, that would most likely solve his problems.

skidram

Yes, we are certainly not getting what was promised. It seems like each evening, Netflix is buffering repeatedly. It's very disappointing. The only thing more disappointing is the prospect of trying to contact anybody at Verizon. That can be a time killer.

kos123

Netflix works fine for me when I turn on the VPN I had to pay extra for just so I could use streaming services and it allows me to avoid the alter.net pathing.

This is an issue they have had for months, I would suggest looking into alternate ISPs if you have any in your area.

It's 100% on verizons end.

working4buddha

I have been having similar problems for the last month. Whenever I play something on Netflix it starts out at terrible quality (worse than SD, it is often completely pixelated). Eventually it switches to what seems to be HD, but this always takes several minutes. And it happens whenever I pause or rewind too which is even more annoying.

When I watched a cartoon it seemed to have jagged lines the entire time which made me think maybe I wasn't getting HD at all and just going from "terrible" to "good" quality.

I am glad I found this thread. I did not really know whether to call Verizon or Netflix about this. I am using a PS3 and they are always making changes to the interface so I thought maybe that was why this was happening.

It is really frustraing to learn that this is a common problem. I switched to FIOS a year ago and thought I was happy with it. But if they are deliberately doing this (or not fixing it) to promote Redbox instant, that is infuriating and it may be time to switch back.

anonFios

If anyone is watching something and not sure of what bit rate they are currently able to stream, search for one of the "Example Shorts" on Netflix and play it.

These test videos have the bit rate hard encoded into the video so you can easily see what bitrate you are streaming on (Note: this doesn't work for mobile phones or devices that don't actively switch bitrates like older Rokus).

Some devices like Wii U, Windows 8 app and various televisions allow you to bring up video info so you can see what quality you are currently streaming (minus button on Wii U, Ctr-S or Ctr-D on Windows 8, info button on some TVs)

NetflixFan

@glugglug wrote:
For the past few weeks I am intermittently getting only 1-2 bars on the bandwidth meter for the XBOX Netflix app, which I think means it is ~1-2Mbps.
I have a 35/35Mbps plan with FIOS, so it should be getting HD all the time. (it used to until recently).
Are others having this problem lately? Is it a FIOS issue or is Netflix downgrading their service for any customers not on OpenConnect ISPs?

I have been using Roku and Netflix for years but, like others, have experienced an increasingly intolerable slowdown between 8 - 10 PM Eastern for the past couple months. The number of quality bars is down but worse than that, the Roku repeatedly returns to the "loading" screen and the download takes up to 2 minutes before play resumes. Last night while watching an episode of Law and Order, the Roku went back to "loading" at least ten times.

I called Netflix and was assured that they have multiple routers in many locations and that the load on their service has not exceeded 70% capacity. It appears to me that Verizon has begun to throttle back on the bandwidth available to Netflix originated traffic during peak hours. I don't know that there is anything subscribers can do about it other than complain. I think that tonight I will stream video from Amazon and see if I encounter the problem.

eversor1

This likely has something to do with it: http://davesblog.com/blog/2014/02/05/verizon-using-recent-net-neutrality-victory-to-wage-war-against-netflix/

For some reason Verizon has figured that limiting bandwidth to particular services is a good business decision. I pay for internet access, and even though I feel that FIOS has been a great service in the past, if this practice continues, I will cancel my account and move elsewhere.

Are there ANY Verizon reps even looking at this thread?

NetflixFan

Fellow Netflix streamers,

I did some testing yesterday evening starting at 7 P.M. Eastern. The results indicate to me that the issue outlined in this article is the most likely source of the poor quality of Netflix and the endless buffering I have endured for the past several weeks. I made an Ethernet connection from the FIOS router to my laptop and tested the download speed at 84 Mbs to confirm that FIOS speed is not the problem. I used my commercial VPN (Private Internet Access – PIA) to connect (my laptop only) to one of the PIA servers on the East Coast. I connected to Netflix and started an episode of Leverage simultaneously on my laptop and Roku (which is also Ethernet connected to the router). The initial buffering took at least 5 – 10 times as long on the Roku as on the laptop. I restarted the Roku and the second time it attempted an HD download but stalled. I started it again and it dropped back to 2-bullets and buffered slowly but successfully. The quality on my HD TV was really crummy while it was HD quality on the laptop. I did not experience any re-buffering on either device.

After watching Leverage, I reconnected the VPN on my laptop to a PIA server in the Midwest and started an episode of Numbers with the same result – slow load and lousy on the TV while HD on the laptop.

Next I disconnected the VPN and simultaneously streamed an episode of Law and Order. The quality on the laptop was now lousy like on the TV. It was now nearly 10 P.M. Eastern and both feeds had to re-buffer a couple times.

I don’t know which party is to be blamed but it seems to me that our best hope for a resolution is tell Netflix about our increasing dissatisfaction with the quality of their video streaming service to our homes. Let them straighten it out through their ISP. I don’t think that my ISP is the source of the problem since Netflix works just fine over my VPN which also rides my ISPs’ backbone but which by-passes the offending ISP peering point.

NetflixFan

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/verizon-bandwidth-provider-blame-each-other-for-slow-netflix-streaming/

Namronorman

Netflix buys an appropriate amount of transit. The issue lies with peering between Verizon and other tier 1 providers. Generally, Verizon customers will see Netflix delivered to them via Level 3. It would not surprise me if Verizon is just getting creative with their peering setups in order to degrade Netflix streaming without implementing any actual throttling. You should look into what COMCAST does with running specific TATA links hot on purpose in order to punish specific types of traffic. It was quite the topic back in 2010 on NANOG.

db909

Well it is good to know that you can get a business account and bypass all this nonsense. At least until FIOS starts throttling business accounts also.

Sava333

Same issue here, noticed for the past month or two seemingly right after the Net Neutrality debacle, Netflix has been pretty much unusable. I'm interested to see the January results listed on Netflix's ISP rankings:

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa

If only Google Fiber would expand more rapidly. Seriously considering switching back to Optimum though I prefer Fios TV, Optimum internet seems to be better.

db909

Here is an interesting article, FIOS is not analyzed but I think it is pretty clear what is going on from reading the article.

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/06/theres-something-rotten-in-the-state-of-online-video-streaming-and-the-data-is-starting-to-emerge/

Sava333

Fios falls another notch on Netflix ISP rating:

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months/

db909

@Sava333 wrote:
Fios falls another notch on Netflix ISP rating:
http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-performance-on-verizon-and-comcast-has-been-dropping-for-months/

"In response to Netflix's rankings, Verizon gave Ars this statement:

How the Internet works can be complicated..."

Seriously?

"Google Fiber, Cox, and Cablevision in particular have been impressive. The comparisons to better performing ISPs place Verizon and Comcast in a bad light."

How about they just fix it and catch up to their competitors?

dniq

There's nothing complicated about how internet works.

Simple truth: direct streaming from NetFlix of a sample movie (http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Example_Short_23.976/70136810), while also streaming another movie from NetFlix on my Apple TV - 560 kbit/sec maximum. Here's the traceroute to the server from which it's being streamed:

dniq-mba:~ root# traceroute 108.175.42.142

traceroute to 108.175.42.142 (108.175.42.142), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 2.695 ms 1.551 ms 0.965 ms

2 l100.nwrknj-vfttp-96.verizon-gni.net (98.109.218.1) 7.524 ms 6.214 ms 6.285 ms

3 g0-13-2-0.nwrknj-lcr-21.verizon-gni.net (130.81.109.116) 10.986 ms 7.362 ms 8.094 ms

4 ae0-0.nwrk-bb-rtr1.verizon-gni.net (130.81.209.154) 7.664 ms

ae1-0.nwrk-bb-rtr1.verizon-gni.net (130.81.209.146) 6.032 ms 4.657 ms

5 0.xe-10-1-0.br1.nyc1.alter.net (152.63.18.225) 10.493 ms

0.xe-5-0-0.br1.nyc1.alter.net (152.63.16.61) 7.052 ms

0.xe-10-1-0.br1.nyc1.alter.net (152.63.18.225) 39.672 ms

6 * * ae11.edge2.newyork.level3.net (4.68.62.41) 42.052 ms

7 4.34.146.66 (4.34.146.66) 52.443 ms 49.003 ms 47.555 ms

8 ipv4_1.lagg0.c033.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net (108.175.42.142) 49.647 ms 49.635 ms 47.286 ms

And then I connect to my work VPN (all traffic now goes via the VPN) - suddenly the speed becomes 3000 kbit/sec. And here's the traceroute again:

dniq-mba:~ root# traceroute 108.175.43.165

traceroute to 108.175.43.165 (108.175.43.165), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 10.11.0.36 (10.11.0.36) 11.397 ms 12.910 ms 10.537 ms

2 10.11.0.1 (10.11.0.1) 9.074 ms 12.515 ms 11.629 ms

3 12.130.81.133 (12.130.81.133) 9.830 ms 12.855 ms 13.381 ms

4 mdf016c7613r0001-tge-10-4.nyc2.attens.net (63.240.24.105) 15.201 ms 12.380 ms 14.328 ms

5 12.122.251.41 (12.122.251.41) 9.978 ms 11.212 ms 12.649 ms

6 cr2.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.122.130.94) 15.857 ms 16.380 ms 14.606 ms

7 igs3.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.122.115.89) 14.208 ms 14.022 ms 14.550 ms

8 ae-15.r05.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.9.205) 13.816 ms 18.349 ms 13.998 ms

9 ae-3.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.205) 13.600 ms 14.362 ms 13.881 ms

10 ae-1.netflix.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.198.114) 54.818 ms 56.614 ms 54.739 ms

11 ipv4_1.lagg0.c075.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net (108.175.43.165) 48.449 ms 44.598 ms 47.986 ms

And then I disconnect from the VPN again, and stop streaming the movie on Apple TV - suddenly the speed in my web browser improves to 3000 kbit/sec!

So two devices streaming video from NetFlix over the same connection are limited to around 3500 kbit/sec. When I connect to my VPN - Apple TV streams directly from NetFlix, while web browser streams via the VPN. Verizon can no longer see that I have the second stream from NetFlix, therefore not limiting the bandwidth for the VPN one.

If this is not the evidence of Verizon throttling the speed - I don't know what is.

Sava333

Well it's technically not 'throttling'. Allowing peering connections to become saturated is what's happening. Lucky for you, your VPN is bypassing those problematic connections, probably somewhere in the ALTER.NET and LEVEL3 areas. I ran a similar tracert and got mostly timeouts.

I know Google Fiber and Cablevision are part of Open Connect, pretty sure Cox is also which is why their Netflix quality is so great. Imagine if Verizon signed up, the splashes they'd make, the happy customers they'd have and the amazing press they'd get. We could all go on bragging about how their network really is 'pristine' again. Not sure what the problem would be with that.

AfriShutah

I recently upgraded my Verison FIOS service and now have a 50/25 Mb pipe. Sadly, I cannot tell any difference when trying to watch Netflix movies. It can take up to 5 minutes before a movie starts streaming, especially if the qulity of the connection is indicated with the bars as "high" (this is pretty counter-intuitive).

I have contacted Verizon, Netflix and the manufacturer of my Blu-Ray device (Samsung) and done everything that is possible. Verizon and Netflix keep blaming each other. Although I have no proof that Verizon is throttling delivery of Netflix content, I do find it curious that I am recenly bombarded with more and more emails and ads for Verizon's own content (movies).

I almost dropped Verizon (I have been a loyal customer since 2008) last week, in frustration over ever higher monthly fees and poorer service. I reluctantly accepted their offer to upgrade to a 50/25 Mb connection (my original connection was 20/5). Alas, it seems to have been for naught.

We may be going separate ways, after all ... and btw. I will also be dropping Nextflix until I can get a better connection.

Sava333

Yeah, when I initially spoke to Verizon support about this, they suggested my wireless signal was the cause, not strong enough. So I went and bought a range extender, even though my network hadn't changed at all.

Two problems with this now. One, the range extender wasn't needed in the first place, if I'd known about all these network issues before I bought it, I wouldn't have bothered. Two, Actiontec routers have issues with range extenders and the thing doesn't even work past 24 hours due to the DHCP lease. I have to restart it once a day to get it to work properly.

Do you think Verizon will reimburse me the cost of the now useless range extender? My Magic 8-ball just told me that it's sources say no.

AfriShutah

I recently upgraded my Verison FIOS service and now have a 50/25 Mb connection, supposedly. Sadly, I cannot tell any difference when trying to watch Netflix movies. It can take up to 5 minutes before a movie starts streaming, especially if the quality of the connection is indicated with the bars as "high" (this is pretty counter-intuitive).

I have contacted Verizon, Netflix and the manufacturer of my Blu-Ray device (Samsung) which is hardwired into the brand new router Verizon sent me. Firmware is updated and I have done everything that is possible at this point. Verizon and Netflix keep blaming each other. Although I have no proof that Verizon is throttling delivery of Netflix content, I do find it curious that I am recenly bombarded with more and more emails and ads for Verizon's own content (movies). A mere coincidence?

I almost dropped Verizon (I have been a loyal customer since 2008) last week, in frustration over ever higher monthly bills and poorer service. I reluctantly accepted their offer to upgrade to a 50/25 Mb connection (my original connection was 20/5). Alas, it seems to have been for naught.

We may be going separate ways, after all ... and btw. I will also be dropping Nextflix until I can get a better connection.

iamloco724

Is there anyway to see the bitrate on netflix streaming through ps3 app? or to know if im getting what i should be getting besides looking at the picture

im just curious, i just started using netflix more so im just looking into things

Sava333

I believe if you hit the 'select' button on the PS3 controller it will show you the resolution. If you search for 'Example Short 23.976' in Netflix and stream that, it has the bitrate and resolution show up in the top left corner. It's kind of like a test video that you can stream.

Currently getting 560kbps on my 50mbps hardwired connection with a resolution of 512x384. So pixelated that you can hardly even read the numbers, wonderful!

iamloco724

Im on 150/65 or whatever the plan is and im getting super hd on ps3 app at all times of day sometimes it takes a little longer but seems fine

my issue is i just started really using netflix and started house of cards season 2 and sound quality seems to be my issue it at times sounds like a bad mp3 with swooshing sounds at the end of certain words

zygomatic

I too am experiencing what is clearly a deliberate move by either Verizon or Netflix. My streaming speed is near-zero at times; the bare minimum. There is no explanation for this on my 60/40 connection. Whatever the issue, I blame Verizon for not putting the Netflix caching appliances on its network. This is blatant disrespect for the customer.

anonFios

"I too am experiencing what is clearly a deliberate move by either Verizon or Netflix."

Only one company has something to gain by providing a poor streaming experience from Netflix (hint: it's not Netflix)

Doermer1

I noticed the last month my Netflix is not streaming HD anymore. The quality is horrible. I have commented on Netflix re each show/movie I've streamed. Now it looks like it's Verizon playing games. I have 25/25 high speed and ever since Christmas '13, I've had problems. I'm paying good money for high speed HD quality. I'd like this fixed!

dbx1

I've been having the same issues and have gone through all the troubleshooting stuff. Nothing fixes it. There's only one explanation. Verizon is throttling connections to Netflix. More specifically, it's throttling connections to the server infrastructure that Netflix uses, called Amazon Web Services, or AWS.

Go to this web site: http://netneutralitytest.com/

From there, you can run speed tests against some AWS locations, or Linode servers. If you live on or near the east coast, test AWS East, and then test the Linode server closest to you. If you live on or near the west coast, test an AWS server near you, and then a nearby Linode server. I'm on FIOS and paying for 50 Mbit down. When I test AWS East, it starts at 25 and drops steadily to 10. When I test Linode in Newark, NJ I get a constant 57 Mbit.

No way does that make any sense. I'm a software engineer who's been working on server-based software for 7 years, so I'm familiar with the routine of troubleshooting a network connection, and I know some other engineers have posted in this thread.

No way am I paying $60 a month (soon to be $80 since the first year was discounted). I'll cancel the service if it's this bad, I don't care if I have to pay early termination fees. I'll get better service elsewhere.

If you want to know why Verizon is doing this, its because they want you to pay for their TV services instead of getting it from Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and others. A federal court on January 14 ruled that the FCC can't force Verizon and other ISPs to not throttle certain traffic. In other words, a court said Verizon can throttle all it wants and the FCC can't stop them.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-14/verizon-wins-net-neutrality-court-ruling-against-fcc.html

Nobody should be surprised by this, but they should be **bleep** off.

Sava333

Not sure about the http://netneutralitytest.com/ test. When I test the AWS East server I get the full 50mbps that I'm paying for. Yet if I go to Netflix, the stream is horrible. Using the CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+D trick in the browser window, I can see that the bandwidth measurement to Netflix is hovering around 1mbps which is unacceptable.

During non-peak times the bandwidth measurement is usually between 20 and 30mbps and I get full HD. Once peak time sets in around 3-5pm it drops down to 1 or less than 1.

SteveVi

Same issue here. I don't recall seeing anything about streaming throttling in my service agreement when I "upgraded" my FiOS service from 20Mbps to 50Mbps a couple of weeks ago. However, since then my Netflix qualiity has sucked **bleep**!

Not happy and soon to be an ex-Verizon FiOS customer after nearly 10 years and THOUSANDS of dollars spent (average $130/month x 120 months = $15,600)

SoNi67

I have done some testing in Internet Explorer.

Play a movie in netflix, IE. Don't maximize the window.

Left Click on image.

Press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D

Read buffering speed from netflix.

At 9:20PM I get 560 kbps.

My friend down the street, with Cox Cable as provider, gets 3000 kbps - that's HD 720p (his TV is only 720p).

I am calling Verizon tommorow...

sparky571

Same issue with me on DSL. Proved today that the issue occurs during prime time. Every night for the last several nights best I can do is 500-600KBps with Netflix on my BluRay player. Speed tests consistently at 1.5-1.7MBps. If I switch over to another service (YouTube, Crackle, etc.) stream is at 1.5-1.7Mbps. So this morning around 7am I tried Netflix and it was at 1.5-1.7MBps.

GloriaS1

It has been very frustrating; I have also talked to Netflix who assured me I have more than enough speed. Funny, but I can stream netflix through the bluray player and it keeps "loading" over and over while trying to watch. But I can stream something else through the Bluray like a Popcorn Flix movie and it works just fine. YOU CAN'T TELL ME VERIZON IS NOT THROTTLING NETFLIX. And I sure pay enough each month to Verizon to get an equal signal for everything...

BigMemory

My Netflix has been very slow here in the Washington DC Area, i used to be able to stream HD all the time. Now it steps down to 2 or 3 bars. I've heard that Verizon is throttling Netflix, is this true?

anonFios

Looks like there may be a very solid reason to switch away from Fios to Comcast now:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-may-have-gained-direct-connection-to-c...

Meanwhile, on Verizon...
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/netflix-packets-being-dropped-every-day-becaus...

garyalex1

Verizon says they're not throttling Netflix traffic. This graph from Netflix says otherwise. I don't know who's telling the truth here. I just think that eventually this will be fixed but we'll end up paying for it.

tns2

@garyalex wrote:
Verizon says they're not throttling Netflix traffic. This graph from Netflix says otherwise. I don't know who's telling the truth here. I just think that eventually this will be fixed but we'll end up paying for it.

Its a matter of definition. Verizon is not throttling, which is artificially limiting traffic. Of course they don't have enough servers in place to handle traffic, claiming that the other provider is not a peer and so must pay for the cost to upgrade connections.

Eventually new rules will be written, Verizon won the court case on the old rules. And it hopefully will be clear on who has to bear the costs of such upgrades. Bad news is the final costs always goes to the users.

SteveVi

Have a look at this page for a good laugh: FiOS Quantum Internet - The Fastest Internet Plans for You

Look at the description for the 50/25 Mbps service:

Upload and download in a flash. Plus, play games and stream videos virtually lag-free—ideal for watching Redbox Instant titles.

As has been alluded to before this really smells at a ploy to get people to switch to Redbox. I smell an Anti-trust suit about to happen.

MarathonDoug

I have 30 Mbps FiOS Internet service, FiOS TV, and Verizon/Redbox. Why has Netflix throughput gotten so bad lately? Why would I pay for 50 Mbps service if I can't get acceptable speed now? Verizon is obviously playing games. If you are going to do this you should not do it a customer that has ALL of your home services. There is still Comcast coax coming to my house and I will use it if this nonsense does not stop.

back2back

I agree with you. I upgraded to FIOS Qunatum and the results were worse when I had the 25 Megs. What a rip off! Now they're trying to get us to pay erven more with 75 Megs and their latest and greatest router for another $100.00. Keep it up Verizon, soon you will get some big competition and when that time comes you'll be nothing more than when you strated off.

scottydog

This simply forces those who want commercialess films and TV programs to find them elsewhere. It also will increase illegal downloading a copy right issues for those who are **bleep** enough to do it.

SoNi67

@Sava333 wrote:
Using the CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+D trick in the browser window, I can see that the bandwidth measurement to Netflix is hovering around 1mbps which is unacceptable.
During non-peak times the bandwidth measurement is usually between 20 and 30mbps and I get full HD. Once peak time sets in around 3-5pm it drops down to 1 or less than 1.

You are lucky. I get sometimes only 345-500 kbps.

Hubrisnxs

you guys hearing yourselves?

Off peak it's fine, on peak (even though your speed is the same from Verizon) Netflix Slows????????

But that's a Verizon issue?

I mean at a glance that really sounds like an issue where they aren't providing enough bandwidth for their servers to stream out to the net.

think about it this way.

Pretend you're trying to get a video from ME. You have FiOS and I have FiOS

Off peak hours, you stream fine, it's just you and maybe one other person getting a video from me.

During peak hours it's TERRIBLE. Because WHY?!?!!? because you and the entire NEIGHBORHOOD are trying to get the same video's from ME with the same connection.

You go elsewhere like hulu or amazon prime and it streams fine.

Doesn't that sound like my bandwidth is just full or over utilized, or over subscribed?

Doesn't it sound like I just need to pay for a bigger pipe? or do you think I can go to verizon and say "hey Verizon, I need more of that sweet carolina free bandwidth you're offering...."

eljefe2

Well said Hubrinsnx! I've used a similar analogy in several discussions on the subject.

It makes sense to me that your or I couldn't start up a service where we created tremendous demand for something we had available for streaming, and then reasonably expect the rest of the Internet world to provide the bandwidth we're requiring.

I don't know what a reasonable solution would be but I suspect it's along the lines of providers like Netflix, Amazon, etc, spreading out servers to more geographcial locations to better cover the globe without saturating specific pipelines.

geschinger1

Hubrisnxs, it absolutely is a Verizon issue.

Netflix has plenty of bandwidth to the data center where the handoff is sone. The problem is that Verizon is letting their ports become saturated and they are refusing to do the (relatively inexpensive) upgrades to increase port capacity. When a cirucit starts to get saturated until recently with Comcast and Verizon the standard operating procesdure with ISPs was to increase port capacity to handle the incoming traffic. Why aren't they upgrading the port capacity? Because they are trying to setu a situation where they can double dip by charging the content provider and the content consumer.

Verizon has a handoff from the tranist provider that handles Netflix traffic and during peak hours that circuit is becoming saturated. If Verizon acted properly they'd add another port to accept the amount of traffic their customer are requesting from that transit provider. Instead they choose to let it sit there in its stautrated state dropping packets and making the experience for their customers awful.

The issue is all on Verizon as it is the Verizon handoff that is saturated rather than anything w/the tranist provider.

bbbb5

it is apparently verizon is slowing Netflix traffic.

evidence: 1. I can not get Netflix HD and my machine has to buffer frequently. speed meter for netflix is 0.5mbs.

2. when I switch watching to Amazon Prime. HD quality with speed up to 15mbs.

I called verizon and was recommened to up my speed for extra $10/month.

I smell fishy.

Hubrisnxs

bbbb

that doesn't mean verizon is throttling, that means amazon knows how to route their traffic appropriately and that they choose wisely who manages their CDN's

Verizon recommending an upgrade was unneccessary

nick_d

How about the people who traced it to a verizon peering point that's clogged? I had a friend in the same city start streaming the same show, same episode at the same time. His netflix never stopped to buffer, he is on a 5Mbps connection from Bright House. Mine, however, stopped to buffer about every 30 seconds to 2 minutes and I am on a 300Mbps connection with FiOS. I experience this problem even connecting to an Akamai Edge Server, which as I hope you would know, is a company well known within the industry to have one of the most robust and high capacity networks in the world. I cannot reliably connect to iTunes to stream an entire movie without buffering. Youtube is awful, too. But it's not Verizon's fault??? Give me a break.

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