Why are certain websites really slow unless I use a VPN?

Verizon: Us throttling AWS and Netflix? Not likely

Here's a great article from Sandvine on the Netflix over a VPN and Why it might work better in some cases.

Video Provider and VPNs

Before we dig deeper, the two key things you need to know about packet delivery on the Internet are as follows:

1) The sender (Netflix) chooses the path for all packets

2) Networks are not normally intelligent enough to route around congestion

...

For those readers, who may immediately jump to the cause of lower quality video being a consumer ISP throttling traffic, know that even the CEO of Netflix doesn’t think this is the case.

...

So will a VPN will give some people a better video experience? Yes.

Will it improve video quality for the vast majority of subscribers? Likely not.

And here's a more authoritative test conducted, with large samplings of customers.

All comments

smith6612

There are some known congestion issues between Verizon and some other networks due to the data explosion caused by services such as Netflix. Netflix, being one the biggest players in this has signed deals with Verizon to take dedicated paths in and out of the Verizon network rather than travel over common Internet transit that other websites must share.

The reason the VPN works better is due to both the path between you and the VPN being in better shape, and the VPN endpoint and whatever site you're trying to visit having a non-congested route. There isn't throttling or shaping taking place that would be causing this.

For Netflix, sit tight. Many locatons are now reporting direct routes showing up for streaming, and playback is starting to flip to HD almost immediately. Performance may be inconsistent for some time until Netflix figures out how to optimally load both their direct circuits, and their general transit. The same goes with Verizon as they have to adjust their network to deal with demands from customers.

For the rest of the traffic, one heavier services like Netflix are reduced to dedicated transit, these services should improve.

@woodsja wrote:
When I stream Netflix I never get HD playback.
If I turn on my VPN, all of a sudden I get HD playback.
If I monitor my network activity I can physically observe significantly greater network activity after enabling my VPN.
Why is the data from certain websites like Netflix significantly slower when Verizon knows the origin of the data?

Think "FIOS Redbox"

viafax999

@woodsja wrote:
When I stream Netflix I never get HD playback.
If I turn on my VPN, all of a sudden I get HD playback.
If I monitor my network activity I can physically observe significantly greater network activity after enabling my VPN.
Why is the data from certain websites like Netflix significantly slower when Verizon knows the origin of the data?

Because you're vpn is using different dns servers which give you a better path.

You'll probably get the same effect by changing your local dns from the verizon dns server to open dns or google.

I suspect that's why I don't and never have had any netflix issues.

http://lifehacker.com/use-a-vpn-to-bypass-your-isps-throttling-of-netflix-or-1608538080

It has nothing to do with DNS otherwise people would just change their DNS to google or Level 3 etc.

"Using a VPN hides the kind of traffic you're using, so ISPs can't discriminate against high-bandwith ones—not just Netflix, but possibly other streaming services like Hulu or YouTube"

viafax999

@db909 wrote:
It has nothing to do with DNS otherwise people would just change their DNS to google or Level 3 etc.

"Using a VPN hides the kind of traffic you're using, so ISPs can't discriminate against high-bandwith ones—not just Netflix, but possibly other streaming services like Hulu or YouTube"

http://lifehacker.com/use-a-vpn-to-bypass-your-isps-throttling-of-netflix-or-1608538080

I have and never have had any netflix issues since getting rid of Verizon dns servers.

Maybe the OP who said that it worked fine with a vpn could change his dns servers to see if that also resolves the issues and report back.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29341990-Networking-1st-Proof-of-Verizon-Netflix-Direct-Peering-~start=90

The Netflix / FIOS issue has been going on for months and it is a well-documented fact that a VPN will alleviate the issue. My suggestion to you is google "Netflix FIOS VPN”.

The fact that you have not had the issue is not relevant. I have not either, Netflix works great for me with FIOS, Google, or Level 3 DNS, probably because this issue has nothing to do with DNS.

Again google is your friend, do some research and what you will see is hundreds of people are having issues with Netflix on FIOS, they post here, on DSLR, blogs etc etc. What is pretty obvious if you do a bit of research is that the issue is geographical. Some parts of the country have a lot more congestion than others. Be glad you don't live in one of those areas.

"Is Netflix's CDN routing affected by the DNS server you use? I'm not a Netflix user but some in the household are, so I better ask, wifey might not cook dinner. "

"No. DNS is for when your computer is looking for something, when the data is coming the other way, its up to the sender what the route will be"

" So, if you click for a movie title the DNS server doesn't look for the nearest/closest Netflix CDN? If not, who determines the nearest/closest CDN server for us?"

"When you click, that is an application on the Netflix server which decides on their end how to send the movie stream to your device based on IP address which it already has. DNS is never used in this process"

And what was said about DNS servers achieving the same outcome as VPN's is also true, and a better experience. VPN's are naturally very slow.

Using a standalone DNS provider instead of your ISP's DNS can sometimes change where your streaming data comes from. "You're effectively lying to their system and pretending to be somewhere else," he said. "It's exactly the same effect, it's achieved differently, you don't actually use a VPN or a tunnel." Streaming services may use DNS-based geo-location to figure out an optimal path to send traffic. Tricking the geo-location system can result in the data being sent from a different location and along a different path.

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
And what was said about DNS servers achieving the same outcome as VPN's is also true, and a better experience. VPN's are naturally very slow.
Using a standalone DNS provider instead of your ISP's DNS can sometimes change where your streaming data comes from. "You're effectively lying to their system and pretending to be somewhere else," he said. "It's exactly the same effect, it's achieved differently, you don't actually use a VPN or a tunnel." Streaming services may use DNS-based geo-location to figure out an optimal path to send traffic. Tricking the geo-location system can result in the data being sent from a different location and along a different path.

i'm sorry - how does dns effect where a server thinks you are? As far as I know, netflix has no clue what DNS i use. The communication with the name server and myself is just between myself and the name server. How does changing name servers change where netflix (or any other server out there) thinks I am located?

that's pretty much how CDN's work. Netflix knows where the DNS server is located by geolocate services. it actively uses DNS geo locate services to determine how to send you a movie.

@merk wrote:
The way a CDN works is as follows: companies relying on CDN based delivery of their contents will manage their domains through a CDN provider. When a request comes for say domain D, a machine will contact its configured DNS server and will be directed to the "authoritative entity" for the domain D in question. From this point, the CDN DNS server can reply with an answer that provides a binding to an IP address "closest" to where the request originated.

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
that's pretty much how CDN's work. Netflix knows where the DNS server is located by geolocate services. it actively uses DNS geo locate services to determine how to send you a movie.
@merk wrote:
The way a CDN works is as follows: companies relying on CDN based delivery of their contents will manage their domains through a CDN provider. When a request comes for say domain D, a machine will contact its configured DNS server and will be directed to the "authoritative entity" for the domain D in question. From this point, the CDN DNS server can reply with an answer that provides a binding to an IP address "closest" to where the request originated.

That doesn't really make sense. Many people use the same name server and are scattered all over the country. For example, you can use opendns which is a free dns service. If what you described were true, then everyone using that name would ALL appear to be coming from the same location because they are all using that name server.

I also wanted to make a comment regarding the people who are saying the slow down isn't verizon's fault and the netflix is misleading people.

if that were true, how did verizon manage to fix the issue so quickly as soon as netflix agreed to pay verizon? Netflix said it was simply a matter of basically installing extra network cards. Something that can be done in a few hours. Not to mention - aren't we already paying for the data? Does the post office charge the person who receives the letter a fee as well?

Personally i think verizon just saw a chance to use it's own users as hostages to extort some money out of netflix so that we could use the service we already pay for. In the end we'll be the ones paying extra since netflix will at some point have to increase it's prices to cover these costs.

Honestly I wish u were as well versed in the technology and topic as you think you are.

http://www.internetphenomena.com/2014/07/video-provider-and-vpns/

That isn't why vpn's fix the problem for a small amount of users. The information is our there. Unfortunately it doesn't look like you care to understand it. Cognitive dissonance?

http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accidental-mea-culpa/

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
Honestly I wish u were as well versed in the technology and topic as you think you are.

http://www.internetphenomena.com/2014/07/video-provider-and-vpns/

That isn't why vpn's fix the problem for a small amount of users. The information is our there. Unfortunately it doesn't look like you care to understand it. Cognitive dissonance?

I'm not having much luck finding the article right now, but if i find it i'll link it. I did read an article a few weeks ago, which if i remember correctly was posted by netflix itself, explaining that the issue was that verizon needed to install some additional hardware to increase the bandwidth between netflix and verizon and that verizon refused to do so even though this equipment only costs a few thousand dollars, which for a company of it's size, is peanuts for verizon.

Not only that, but netflix offered to buy and install the equipment on it's own without it costing verizon anything, and verizon still refused.

It might have also been level 3 who said all this rather then netflix. If i remember correctly, the issue was basically as simple as installing some additional network cards so that that could increase the bandwidth between level3 and verizon. again, the cost was trivial and someone else (netflix or level3) offered to pay for it.

So unless that was a lie, I don't see how this is anything other then verizon's attemp to get someone to pay for the same data twice - essentially they are charging you coming and going.

Personally, i like the way google handles this sort of issue on it's fiber network - they just let netflix stick a couple of servers that hosts netflix content directly in their facility so that all video streams directly over google's network. And they do this at no charge to netflix.

Rather doubt verizon or any of the other major consumer ISP's will do this.

EDIT: i found the link - and it was level 3 which posted this an offered to foot the bill and do the equipment install.

http://publicpolicy.verizon.com/blog/entry/level-3s-selective-amnesia-on-peering

Most people have a short attention span, and Level 3, with their publicity stunt was counting on that.

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
Honestly I wish u were as well versed in the technology and topic as you think you are.

http://www.internetphenomena.com/2014/07/video-provider-and-vpns/

That isn't why vpn's fix the problem for a small amount of users. The information is our there. Unfortunately it doesn't look like you care to understand it. Cognitive dissonance?

What does this have to do with your erroneous statement that changing DNS would fix Netfix streaming issues?

There is no need tro attack people and change the subject when you are dead wrong.

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
http://publicpolicy.verizon.com/blog/entry/level-3s-selective-amnesia-on-peering

Most people have a short attention span, and Level 3, with their publicity stunt was counting on that.

I'm sorry - but that's a weak response for several reasons.

1. it would have cost verizon a few thousand dollars to solve the problem. A few thousand dollars is peanuts to a company the size of verizon

2. level3 offered to buy the equipment AND install it - so it actually would have cost verizon nothing, and verizon still refused to do this

3. verizon says they are solving the problem by plugging in netflix's content servers directly into verizon's network. It makes no mention of expanding it's own network. Which means it's own network is capable of handling the additional traffic. So why couldn't verizon just let level3 pay for and install the equipment?

4. on a small side note - google also allows netflix to install their content servers directly on the google fiber network. But with one small difference - they aren't charging netflix for this, they are doing it for free. Server hosting costs are pretty neglible

So how is level3 trying to get a free ride if they offered to pay for and install the needed equipment?

O_o

Do you really think that is all it costs to increase bandwidth for hundreds of thousands of subscribers streaming HD and super HD video??

If that is the case then why is anyone messing around with fios?

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
Do you really think that is all it costs to increase bandwidth for hundreds of thousands of subscribers streaming HD and super HD video??
If that is the case then why is anyone messing around with fios?

I feel like you're avoiding the question now.

yes, that's all it costs for a couple of network cards even ones handling that amount of bandwidth.

I gave it in the internet phenomena link

Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.

What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)

Routing around congestion

Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
I gave it in the internet phenomena link
Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.
What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)
Routing around congestion
Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.

I never heard of or used unblockus before this. I took at look at their website and it's clear they are doing more then just changing your DNS since you are in fact setting up a VPN network connection in order to use their service.

Doing a bit a googling though and it's clear that changing your DNS to use unblockus name server is NOT the same as just using another other name server. When you use unblockus's name server and you try to access a site that they support, their name server will return the address of unblockus's proxy server rather then the address of whatever site you are trying to visit.

So for example lets say www.netflix.com's address was 1.2.3.4. Normally any name server will return that address. When you use unblockus (assuming they support netflix) their name server will return the address of their proxy server, which lets say is 5.6.7.8. Their proxy server requests the content from netflix on your behalf and then forwards it to you.

So the traffic from netflix roughly flows like this:

1.2.3.4 (netflix) ---> 5.6.7.8 (unblockus proxy server) --> (you)

It ONLY does this because unblockus has a proxy server set up and their name server is set to return this proxy address for any sites they support. if they don't support the site, their name server returns the direct address of whatever site you are trying to reach

This is NOT how 99% of the name servers out there work. So this article doesn't really show that changing your name server will have any impact on streaming media, not unless it's something special like unblockus

Also feel free to read Sajal Kayan » In a CDN’d world, OpenDNS is the enemy !

He's overseas but it's the same no matter where you're at

Conclusion

Using OpenDNS or Google Public DNS may be fast in resolving the DNS, but they do not give the ideal results.

In the case of Global DNS providers, the IP of the original requester is not passed along to the CDN’s DNS servers so they are unable to route the user to the nearest POP.

...

As you can see in the result tables above, when using OpenDNS from Thailand, trying to access static assets of Facebook, I am directed to a server in the USA whereas when using Google’s DNS i am directed to a server in Japan and when using my ISP’s DNS server I access content locally, hosted within my own ISPs network!

...

Bill Fumerola, ex-director of network engineering at OpenDNS confirms this problem on OpenDNS forums.

Also see http://00f.net/2012/02/22/akamai-vs-public-dns-servers/

on this issue, and how OpenDNS and Google are actually trying to solve it.

They say

There are different ways to achieve this, but a very common one, that Akamai also relies on, is to leverage the DNS system.

When your client wants to resolve www.apple.com, Akamai DNS servers are going to give different replies according to the source IP address.

But what source IP address? Yours? Not always. What Akamai consider is actually the IP address of the DNS resolver hitting their servers. If you're using a local resolver, that's cool. Akamai will know your exact IP address, and hopefully redirect you to the closest server.

If you're using your ISP's resolver, this is the IP Akamai will consider in order to pick the server that will process your query. The result may be the same as if you had used a local resolver. Or not. If the DNS resolver is on a different subnet, Akamai can get confused and you can be redirected to a server that actually is way off base.

If you're using OpenDNS, Google DNS, Norton, Level 3, any other public DNS service, or any other remote DNS resolver (for example, through a VPN connection), Akamai will see the source IP address of your remote resolver, too. Nor yours.

And the server they will redirect you to would probably be an excellent choice if you were Google or OpenDNS. But the very same server can be a very poor choice for you.

It is a stupid way, I agree. But it's how it's always been done

http://www.unblock-us.com/

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
I gave it in the internet phenomena link
Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.
What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)
Routing around congestion
Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.

I would suggest you visit and read a web site before you promote it as a solution. Unblockus is a paid service that masks your location much like a VPN.

"Bypass blocks and protect your identity online.

Be in different places at the same time.
Appear in Canada for one web site and
in UK for another."

They even call their service a VPN if you would look at their title bar on their web page or visit:

https://www.unblock-us.com/vpn-setup/

A traditional DNS server does not mask anything. Here is a good reference to read up on how DNS works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System

Once again changing your DNS server will in NO WAY masks your location like a paid VPN service or a paid service like Unblockus. You do not need to install any software to change your DNS server. It is done in your router. Changing your DNS server to Google or Level 3 will NOT mask your identity nor will it make Netflix streaming issues disappear.

If you want to fix FIOS Netflix bufferring issues you will need some type of paid service to mask your location and more importantly the origin of the stream.

A traditional DNS change will NOT mask anything!

http://www.unblock-us.com/

@Hubrisnxs wrote:
I gave it in the internet phenomena link
Back in May, Sandvine’s CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars Technica’s Jon Brodkin, about why Netflix performance improves on some ISPs when using a VPN.
What's clear is that somewhere in the path from Netflix servers to consumers' homes, there is congestion. It's also clear that some people have improved their own streaming video by using VPNs (virtual private networks) or third-party DNS (Domain Name System) services. (UnblockUs, mentioned above, is not technically a VPN service but it achieves a similar effect by changing your DNS settings.)
Routing around congestion
Sandvine cofounder and CTO Don Bowman talked to Ars this week about why VPN and DNS services can help relieve congestion for certain users. He also talked about the types of shady tactics both video streaming providers and ISPs could employ in their ongoing battles and how that could harm home Internet users.

I would suggest you visit and read a web site before you promote it as a solution. Unblockus is a paid service that masks your location much like a VPN.

"Bypass blocks and protect your identity online.

Be in different places at the same time.
Appear in Canada for one web site and
in UK for another."

They even call their service a VPN if you would look at their title bar on their web page or visit:

https://www.unblock-us.com/vpn-setup/

A traditional DNS server does not mask anything. Here is a good reference to read up on how DNS works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System

Once again changing your DNS server will in NO WAY mask your location like a paid VPN service or a paid service like Unblockus. You do not need to install any software to change your DNS server. It is done in your router. Changing your DNS server to Google or Level 3 will NOT mask your identity nor will it make Netflix streaming issues disappear.

http://www.unblock-us.com/

I would suggest you visit and read a web site before you promote it as a solution. Unblockus is a paid service that masks your location much like a VPN.

"Bypass blocks and protect your identity online.

Be in different places at the same time.
Appear in Canada for one web site and
in UK for another."

They even call their service a VPN if you would look at their title bar on their web page or visit:

https://www.unblock-us.com/vpn-setup/

A traditional DNS server does not mask anything. Here is a good reference to read up on how DNS works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System