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SMTP port

Hi,

Up until yesterday/today I was able to use a 3rd party paid service for SMTP access. For some reason after a lot of troubleshooting I'm thinking VZ has started blocking port 25 outout. Is my assessment correct? Anyone else experiencing the same thing?

Thanks.

Comments

tadfurtado

You are correct. I can't even start to tell you how much time I wasted today on this.

I don't use my Verizon email account, so I never got a single message about this. Of course, Verizon knows exactly which email address to use to let me know my bill is ready to pay!

My outbound messages just stopped working today. And after 4 hours of trying my server and Outlook settings, I came across a notice about this going into effect last year so I called Cus. Service. After the typical 30 minute phone tree issue, I finally got someone who could explain it to me.

Worse, to get my emails to work I had to switch my POP3 account to SMTP through Verizon outbound. And now my messages keep coming back saying they are spam.

I don't want spam scanning by Verizon and I don't want them looking at messages for any reason whatsoever.

This is abusive and out of control.

Dear Verizon, fix this.

NetEng

Yeap...just got off the phone with them after a 30 minute wait with same results as you. It is frustrating to say the least. I had Comcast for years and never had a problem with that and 6 months ago I switched to VZ specifically because they told me that they don't block and now they're blocking. This is not very good customer service. The rep pointed me to http://www.verizon.net/port25 well after I started to probe him for the real answer. I use someone elses SMTP service specifically because of their policy (will not store, track, log may emails relayed through them unless I specifically ask for troubleshooting purposes).

This is very frustrating to say the least. They don't even allow you to white-list yourself somehow. 20/20 hindsight I now appreciate what Comcast's did which was getting their own relays white-listed and letting their DHCP ranges populate RBLs. The level of service is now on par with verizon business which has been spiraling downwards for sometime now.

VZ...fix this bad policy. There are plenty of us clueful customers out there.

tgindrup

Having the same problem myself... and I thought it was my wife have problem's clicking the Send button... LOL

Anyone have any ideas, other than trying to get my mail host to change their port? Don't have a VZ account and would switch ISPs before I'd let them monitor my emails!!! Doesn't make sense for them to run off their customers like this. Give us a better option.

mikedee

Same problem here. According to support, no changes were made recently on Verizon's end. Yet today port 25 stopped working after a year where it did work!

I'm not sure Verizon's left hand knows what its right is doing.

I'll try forwarding SMTP through Verizon, but if it doesn't work the way I want then I'll switch from FIOS to another carrier.

somegirl

Re-posted from this thread:

You don't have to use Verizon's outgoing server. You can use whatever outgoing server you want, just not on port 25. (Most providers have an alternate port available. It's usuallly 587, but not always.)

If your particular server doesn't allow an alternate port and you really don't want to use Verizon's server, find a free one. I recommend Gmail, it's free and their SMTP server uses 465.

tadfurtado

@somegirl wrote:
Re-posted from this thread:
You don't have to use Verizon's outgoing server. You can use whatever outgoing server you want, just not on port 25. (Most providers have an alternate port available. It's usuallly 587, but not always.)
If your particular server doesn't allow an alternate port and you really don't want to use Verizon's server, find a free one. I recommend Gmail, it's free and their SMTP server uses 465.

I am sorry, Somegirl, that is an unacceptable responce.

It reminds me of Henry Ford saying you can have any color Model T you want so long as it's black.

I can't use whatever port I want since my server needs to port in on 25. And I can't use the Verizon outbound server because 1/3rd of the messages I've sent since yesterday have bounced back as spam. And I assure you, there is nothing spammy about them.

So here I pay a lot to rent my own server for my small business and for years have been able to use my own outbound SMTP just fine using my client email program, causing no burden to Verizon. But all of a sudden and without any notice that changed and I must use the Verizon outbound server if I am to connect through my domain.

And you instead that I simply set up a gmail account? Yeah, awesome.

Negative kudos.

somegirl

@tadfurtado wrote:
I am sorry, Somegirl, that is an unacceptable responce.
It reminds me of Henry Ford saying you can have any color Model T you want so long as it's black.
I can't use whatever port I want since my server needs to port in on 25. And I can't use the Verizon outbound server because 1/3rd of the messages I've sent since yesterday have bounced back as spam. And I assure you, there is nothing spammy about them.
So here I pay a lot to rent my own server for my small business and for years have been able to use my own outbound SMTP just fine using my client email program, causing no burden to Verizon. But all of a sudden and without any notice that changed and I must use the Verizon outbound server if I am to connect through my domain.
And you instead that I simply set up a gmail account? Yeah, awesome.
Negative kudos.

I only meant that you could use Gmail's SMTP with your current setup instead of Verizon's, since you are upset about their restrictions.

Other options:

- Pay for a static IP address from Verizon. This will open port 25 for you.

- Set your server to listen on a different port. If you don't have access to do this, contact the admin.

- Use web-based access to check your email.

Yes, it's a pain to have to change something that has worked for years, but Verizon is actually lagging behind most other providers in making this change.

Al_J1

This really sucks! Verizon doesn't have a clue as to the impact and I don't think enough people are complaining. I called twice today and used their live chat to get a resolution and VZ has no work around. Ports 465 and 587 do not work. None of the two solutions VZ offered worked. And all of their representatives had a smug attitude like yeah, you can use the other port settings, oh it doesn't work? Call you email provider or call Microsoft. This is close to getting Comcast or RCN as my ISP. Totally frustrated!

{please keep your posts courteous}

lasagna

Folks, as one poster here already said, this is a good thing that Verizon is doing. The reality is that the number one source of all SPAM on the internet is malware-bots generating tons of spam messages on people's infected PC's and sending the information out on port 25 using spoofed headers. This simple change shuts many, many, of those down cold. Admittedly, some will know enough to try other ports, but most script kiddies aren't that smart.

With respect to communicating the change ... I received not one, but two (at each of my addresses I have on file with Verizon) alerting me to the port 25 change.

So rather than whine and moan ... why not look for a way to be a good network player in helping to reduce the volume of spam on the network. There are a variety of ways if you actually understand how things work ...

For the person running their own mail server -- get a business account with a static IP. You need this anyhow because most reputation based spam scoring engines will pitch all of your messages if you originate from a dynamic IP. Verizon will open port 25 inbound/outbound for business accounts with a static IP. Better still, if you're a small business, Verizon will host your mail for you AND let you use your own domain. I've done this for several clients.

For regular users -- use Verizon's outbound mail server on port 587 to send your mail You can configure you mail client to use whatever sender address / reply-to you want and you can configure your mail client to continue to pickup your mail via POP/IMAP from whatever server you currently use. The only real change here is on the outbound mail server sttings you need to tell it to login to your Verizon pop email server first (which is what enables the mail to go outbound from your client on port 587).

Someone suggested using a mail relay which worked on an alternate port -- many ISP's and mail services do indeed offer such a capability nowadays. Yeah ... those $3.95 / month hosting services might not, but then I wouldn't use them for mail for a number of other reasons which I'd be glad to discuss but aren't worth the space here.

Someone said Gmail ... actually go a step further ... check out Google Apps. Free for personal domains and non-profits. They use SSL secured mail sending and pickup which means no port 25. You can use your own domain name and you get the one of the best anti-spam filters on the planet for incoming mail.

For those of you running a conspracy theory game ... really? If you need to hide your tracks for outbound messages, you're probably one of the spammers they're looking to shut down in the first place. I think running your mail thru a verizon server is the least of your concerns. But hey ... that's me.

Feel free to whine if you want, but as someone who sees the volume of mail which enters my corporate network on a daily basis (and it numbers in the millions of messages a month) and who sees 95% of it pitched by our gateways as spam, anything which can shutdown the malware bots is a good thing particularly when there are so many alternatives available for legitimate traffic to continue to get thru.

ilverface

"The only real change here is on the outbound mail server settings you need to tell it to login to your Verizon pop email server first (which is what enables the mail to go outbound from your client on port 587)."

Except it doesn't work in Outlook 2007.

And your solutions don't address those of us in business who need to send through OUR servers from remote locations...like home. At least it doesn't appear that you are addressing those concerns - but if you were, it's irrelevant if the port Verizon shoves on us DOESN'T WORK!!

somegirl

@ilverface wrote:
"The only real change here is on the outbound mail server settings you need to tell it to login to your Verizon pop email server first (which is what enables the mail to go outbound from your client on port 587)."
Except it doesn't work in Outlook 2007.
And your solutions don't address those of us in business who need to send through OUR servers from remote locations...like home. At least it doesn't appear that you are addressing those concerns - but if you were, it's irrelevant if the port Verizon shoves on us DOESN'T WORK!!

1. The fact that you are using Outlook 2007 has nothing to do with it. The settings are the same for any pop3 client.

2. You don't have to use 587. Verizon is only blocking port 25 (as are most major ISPs), so any port other than 25 that your 3rd party will allow should work.

ggraves1

Thanks for the link. Verizon mentions that most viruses are sent through port 25.

Well duh! That's because port 25 is the default port for SMTP delivery... of course they come through port 25. Now that port 25 is blocked, they will be coming through another port.

This is a **bleep** game that VZ is playing with its customers.

What makes it so bad is that I have an Exchange server where I work that I have shut down everything EXCEPT port 25. Why, so we would only have one open port...

Go figure. Stupidity abounds in the univers. Without it, the universe would be a black hole.

ggraves1

Well lasagna, how do you handle this one?

I have a well-secured server which only allows access through well-defined standard ports. If I send emails to my peers through that server, it doesn't travel through other server, it goes through our secured server, and immediately.

Since I send about 5 emails a month, I called VZ this morning to find what it would cost to get a fixed IP address.

That raises my IP connection from $35 / month to $105 per month because there is no fixed IP option for residential service.

I don't run my mail server in my household, I only want to keep outbound from my household and inbound through that.

I work for a tiny and impoverished NGO.

They had a problem with mail relay, etc before I came and locked down all the open ports on the SMTP server. I have just a few people all over the world who use it. And until June 1, they all used the sole mail port, 25.

Do you really believe that the bots won't figure out that any VZ client will just 587 instead of 25?

Port 25 blocking is a temporary stopgap at best, and totally useless at worst.

lasagna

Everyone keeps missing the point on the SMTP virus thing. This is not about legitimate clients sending messages -- but about BOTs infecting clients and generating SPAM which they in turn transmit at high rates directly to any and all SMTP servers they can find. What Verizon and others have done is separate the MSA function from the MTA function. The MSA (client submission agent) is what your client uses to hand messages it wants delivered to a mail server which will process it and then, on your behalf, contact the MTA at the destination to arrange delivery (the destination may, in fact, utilize one of several services to form a reputation score about the sending server to determine the likelihood of the message being SPAM as well). The MTA is the portion of the server which handles the message transport (inbound mail for instance) from those other MTA's (not clients) who need to give it mail for it's authorized recipients.

Now before anyone goes whining about the change -- that's your right , but save your breath -- it's not going to help fix your problem. Verizon's not going to change that policy -- as it is consistent with many other (most, in fact at this point) major ISP's. This really is a huge issue from a SPAM perspective -- and this one countermeasure results in substantial removal of traffic from the network -- not just the Internet -- but from the Verizon backbone -- a move which personally I support -- makes getting my streaming movies all that much faster without all that SPAM crap clogging the pipes.

There are solutions -- but they take working with the provider of your mail services to fix. Not complaining about port 25 to Verizon. In cases where you are the service provider, it's easy enough to fix. In the case of a third party, I've researched several providers now for people who posted politely about it and found many of them already had the alternate SMTP available, you just need to ask them what it is.

Now for the question at hand ...

Many servers, Exchange included, have the ability for the MSA and MTA to function simultaneously on the same port (namely on port 25). However, many years ago, this functionality was designed to be separated and an alternate MSA port created (typically port 587). This was done to allow for the easy separation of the act of direct receipt (mail given to a server from elsewhere that is specifically destined for a user "on or behind" that server) from relay (mail given to the server for relay to another server as the user was not on that server). This latter function is what you leverage when your client submits messages (with the one corner case you outlined of when a user is on the same server but really it still flows thru the MSA to MTA process). Continuing ... port 587 was then intended to be a "secured" port for relay meaning some method of authenticating yourself to the server (using SMTP AUTH or in some cases POP login to the server which is actually a bit weaker) was needed before messages were accepted for relay (these are the options you see in Outlook on the second tab relating to the outbound server authentication requirements).

Obviously, for a traveling a static IP is not the solution. This is exactly why the alternate port scenario exists.

Security concerns aside since sending identity to the mail server (for POP/IMAP or SMTP AUTH) across the Internet is an extremely bad thing -- talk about the ease of hijacking access to someone's mailbox (you really should be using SSL secured POP/IMAP and TLS/SSL secured SMTP AUTH for interacting with your server) ... since you say that you're the one managing your Exchange and network environment, this is what you should be doing:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/823019

This describes enabling the secure POP / SMTP protocols between the client and the server. But it is quite a bit involved and isn't necessary to "fix" your port 25 issue. You should however read it as it provides a lot of good technical background on the shortcomings of basic POP/IMAP authentication (which incidently, Verizon's mail servers are no better at either).

For information on the alternate port setup, I believe you want to go here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa997328(EXCHG.80).aspx

and

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=266686

These talk about setting additional listener ports (in the first instance, on the same SMTP virtual server and in the second by configuring a second virtual server). You can also setup your Exchange server to do secured POP/IMAP/SMTP but that will require certificate and some additional work.

Optionally, if you're controlling the firewall, simply setup a port forward for inbound tcp/587 to tcp/25 (in the case of a small SOHO router or similar) or a static port NAT doing the same thing (in the case of an enterprise grade firewall like Cisco, Checkpoint, etc.).

These a complicated and involved -- but if you're running a mail server -- you should already know that. If you're not the admin, then these aren't for you. You need to speak with the mail server provider and explain the scenario -- tell them to google port 25 blocking if they don't believe how big an issue this is.

No need to get a static IP for the clients. They will however need to do a one time reconfiguration to move all their outbound mail over to the new port once you have it configured.

Oh ... and since you mentioned that your an NGO ... are you a non-profit? There's a way to get a robust mail infrastructure for free without needing to manage an Exchange environment. I use it for quite a few non-profits that I provide support for and they are extremely happy. PM me and I'll give you details.

Oh ... and one more thing I stumbled on for the rest of the masses who are still stuck ... maybe try one of these services:

http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_mail/outbound_port_25_unblock.html

http://www.dnsexit.com/Direct.sv?cmd=mailRelay

and numerous others (search for "alternate smtp relay"). Yes ... they cost money, but they're relatively inexpensive (for example, the first one above starts at $19.95/yr for up to 150 outbound messages/recipients per day).

-lasagna (cat "all whining" > /dev/null 2>&1)

Howard3

Why don't we just do everything on port 80. Firewall's block everything else. (Incredibly sarcastic and **bleep** off at you sheeple).

viafax999

@ggraves wrote:
They had a problem with mail relay, etc before I came and locked down all the open ports on the SMTP server. I have just a few people all over the world who use it. And until June 1, they all used the sole mail port, 25.
Do you really believe that the bots won't figure out that any VZ client will just 587 instead of 25?
Port 25 blocking is a temporary stopgap at best, and totally useless at worst.

Seems to me the answer to your problem is to change your server to use semething other than port 25.

Do you really believe that the bots won't figure out that any VZ client will just 587 instead of 25?

In the case of the Verizon outgoing server you have to authenticate outgoing mail with your VZ userid and password - that should cut down on bot activity dramatically unless you VZ email account has been hacked.

Port 25 blocking is a temporary stopgap at best, and totally useless at worst.

That may be, however I think just the opinion of a server admistrator who doesn't understand the issue and hasn't really solved it on his own server - see point 1.

Howevr if there is a better solution this as a stop gap measure is at least a step in the right direction.

bowiea

Here is my problem. EVERY SMTP PORT is blocked on my home email account for my domain. It was working fine until about two weeeks ago.

My wife was on her Verizon email and was also doing some searches on Firefox/Google. Apparently clicked a bad link. A day later we were informed about SPAM. My wife does not know anything about SPAM, Viruses, etc. She knows to send email.

So, Verizon abuse blocked our email for a few days. At the same time, my Outlook mail would no longer send. Verizon turned on Verizon email again. HOWEVER, my Outlook mail no longeer will send email for my domain email. Verizon says it is not them, but they never give any indication as to any testing to see if it is true or not.

HOWEVER, I have tried everyhting to troubleshoot the issue. I have tried every known SMTP server, and port setting to get mail to send. IT WILL NOT SEND. Nothing works.

To answer all the what ifs.....

I have run the fix on OUTLOOk, and MS OFFICE. I have unistalled, and reinstalled MS OFFICE. I have tried other email programs like Live Mail and Thunderbird. I CANNOT send mail from home.

I have a laptop, and I formatted the drive, and reset it back to original out of the box settings. STILL unable to send email.

NO, it is not my ISP for my domain. I can go to my domain control panel, and send and receive mail. I can also go to mail2web.com and send and receive email.

I can telnet to my pop server on port 110. I use to be able to telnet to my SMTP server on port 25 or 26, or any other SMTP PORT 465, 587.

Here is what I know after 18 years experience in tech support. I started with an ISP as a dialup support tech. I do know email settings. MS Outlook will use POP3 server settings. Webmail will use IMAP settting. This is why I can go to a web based email like mail2web.com and send and reveive email. IMAP is NOT BLOCKED. SMTP is blocked.

When I call Verizon support, I get on the phone with people who either do not put notes in the ticketing system, or they do not read the notes that are there.

I have explained the situation more than a few times. The people on the other end of the phone give not indication that they have any idea about what is going on. I have been hung up on TWICE this past week alone. AND NO ONE EVER CALLS ME BACK.

So, here I am. Stuck. With no answers.

AT such time as my contract runs out with Verizon, I will be gone. I may leave next week. I will gladly pay early termination fees if needed.

The big ISP's just really don't care. They can afford to lose a few thousand customers.

Consumers just deal with it because they have no choice.

They bounce from one ISP to the next because they get lousy support form all of them.

Very sad

viafax999

You don't actually mentyion which port and which outgoing mail server you are using.

You should be using for outbound

smtp.verizon.net in the outgoing mail server (smtp) outlook setting

it will need your verizon credentials to logon to complete the send so on the outlook account more settings outgoing server you will need

your verizon email userid and password and check remember password

on the advanced tab of more setting you will need to enter

port 465 for outgoing server (smtp)

the session should be set to ssl

my incoming server is set to 110 that will be whatever your domain isp tech gave you.

bowiea

Only one problem. IT DOES NOT WORK!!

If you read my post, I said I tried all the smtp port settings. 25 26 465 and 587 and also tried no SSL, SSL and everything else in MS Outlook..

IT DOES NOT WORK..

Here is the telnet to mal.abcomputing.com 26

C:\Windows\system32>telnet mail.abcomputing.com 26
Connecting To mail.abcomputing.com...Could not open connection to the host, on p
ort 26: Connect failed

IT DOES NOT WORK.

Now telnet from an online telnet source.

telnet mail.abcomputing.com 26
220-rs19.websitehostserver.net ESMTP Exim 4.82 #2 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 13:17:11 -0500
220-We do not authorize the use of this system to transport unsolicited,
220 and/or bulk e-mail.

THIS WORKS!! WHY? This is independent of the Verizon servers.

VERIZON IS BLOCKING MY SMTP SERVER FROM MY HOME COMPUTER.

Plain and simple tech support troubleshooting.

From my home computer I cannot reach my domain mail SMTP server.

I can reach webmail for my domain.

This means my domain IS NOT BLOCKING MY OUTGOING MAIL VERIZON IS.

So, whomever you are viafax999, you don't know either.

I sure hope Veriaon is monitoring this. It needs fixed.

I am thinking that if they are blocking my email outgoing, and are not working to resolve the issue, they may be in brach of contract.

We shall see.

bowiea

breach of contract.

dslr595148

@bowiea wrote:
I sure hope Veriaon is monitoring this. It needs fixed.

FYI, this forum is generally peer-to-peer. Everyone except the Verizon moderators are just regular customers. Some of us have been posting helpful stuff for a while and have earned the special designations you see, but we don't speak for Verizon or have any special knowledge of or access to Verizon's systems.

Sometimes the Verizon moderators will escalate issues when customers haven't gotten resolution through normal channels. When that happens, the Verizon support team takes over and continues the conversation through private messages

Bottom line, if you want a response from Verizon you need contact them using the phone or online chat. Posting here or other web forums and hoping you get a response isn't very productive. Just contact them, they can often be helpful.

Good Luck.

viafax999

@bowiea wrote:
So, whomever you are @viafax999, you don't know either.
I sure hope Veriaon is monitoring this. It needs fixed.
I am thinking that if they are blocking my email outgoing, and are not working to resolve the issue, they may be in brach of contract.
We shall see.

I'm just another outlook user who has absolutely no problem getting to any of my mail servers and was trying to help you out.
I also can get to your mail server via telnet which says to me that Verizon isn't blocking port 26 - unless they are doing it just for you - sounds rather far fetched. However if that is the case it would presumably have to be by ip address so you could try releasing your WAN address and getting a new one. I would believe more likely is that there is something on your machine blocking the access. Does the problem occur on all machines in your house?
Another possibility is that if you received a notification of spamming then the Ip address you have assigned to your router may have been blacklisted. Again Releasing the address and acquiring a new one should resolve that.
You didn't mention whether you had tried using smtp.verizon.net for your outbound server. If that doesn't work then Verizon should address the issue as that smtp server should always work from inside their network.

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