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Unplugging all network devices from Fios router prevents DVR freezing and remote control lock ups.

All,

I recently had a Verizon tech visit my house due to constant DVR and remote control freezing. TV content was freezing whether it was locally recorded, pulled from another DVR in the house, or On Demand. On a hunch after the tech tested everything and was about to leave, he unplugged my gigabit switch from the Fios router. Lo and behold everything started running perfectly. Since to the tech, the problem was solved, he closed the case and was on his way. The probem is of course I have more devices than the built in router switch provides ports for. My network is compised of an 8 port Netgear gigabit switch downstream from the Fios router with two wireless access points (with their own built in gigbait switches) connecting to the Netgear gigabit switch. There are no loops in the switch topology. I've tried changing out the router, the gigabit switch, removing the wireless acces points individually as well as plugging the access points directly into the Fios router switch (one at a time with no Netgear switch in the middle) and all scenarious cause the DVR/remote control freeezing to come back. The only devices I can plug into the Fios router without causing freezes are PC's....anything with it's own switch essentially brings the network to it's knees. If anyone has an idea how to get my network back in one piece AND make the DVR's/remotes behave, I'd greatly appreciate the help!

My Fios equipment:

MI-424WR GEN-3I rev I (eye) running firmware 40.19.36

5 Motorola HD-DVRs all QIP 7232-2 running software release 1.9.1 platform build 25.39 (Oct. 22, 2012)

Specific config:

75/35 Fios connecting via ethernet from ONT. Set-top boxes connect to Fios router coax port via powered splitter.

*All SNR/dB mesasurements taken by the tech from the set-top boxes and router are well within spec.

Fios router provides DHCP addressing. Wireless N access points are configured for roaming with the same SSID and non-overlapping channels. Access points are not providing routing or IP adressing...all layer 3 and up services still provided by Fios router

Diagram:

ONT

Fios Router ---------Cable Splitter---------Set Top Boxes

Netgear Switch

| |

WAP1 WAP2

Comments

tns

I doubt its the switch unless its defective. Possibly something in the way you have your Wireless networks setup. Are all your wireless access points setup as different channels or different ids? I see you mentioned non-overlapping channels.

Why a powered Splitter. Because of two way communications needed on the cable, they have been known to cause problems at least for some models of splitter.

WayfarerII1

Thanks for the follow up. I considered the wireless configuration and removed one and ultimately both WAP's from the network and there was no improvement. Also, having only 1 WAP running would preclude any issues with roaming configurations so I've ruled that out. In ithe most basic wireless configuration with one WAP plugged directly into the Fios router with no other switch ports in use, the problem persists. Also, my powered splitter is built into the structured wiring panel of the house and has been running fine; however, the tech did put in a passive splitter on his first visit (thanks for jogging my memory) several months ago to see if that could be the culprit and it made no difference so I've moved the coax feeds back onto the powered splitter. Thanks!

PJL

Have you tried clearing the routing table on the router? The switch being plugged in maybe hosing some routing that is impacting the STB communitions to other devices.

WayfarerII1

I'm not sure how to clear the ARP table on this rev.I; however, I had an extra router (same version and firmware) left behind from the installer and swapping units entirely still produces the same problem. Thanks for your input!

armond_in_nj1

WayfarerII wrote:

... DVR ... remote ... freezing ... TV ... whether ... locally recorded, pulled from another DVR ...
... tech ... unplugged my gigabit switch from the Fios router ... and ... everything started running perfectly ...
... config:
75/35 Fios ... via ethernet from ONT ... Set-top boxes connect to Fios router via powered splitter ...
ONT
|
| cat5
|
Fios Router ---------Cable Splitter---------Set Top Boxes
|
Netgear Switch
| |
WAP1 WAP2

I am inclined to echo several of the "tns" comments, particularly with respect to your splitter. My layout is based on a standard 8-port splitter of the type usually supplied in a VZ install. In addition I do have a ChannelPlus device that functions as a powered splitter, but its use is limited to distribution of secondary TV signals to older analog TVs. My first point then is that this may be an offender as "tns" has suggested.

In addition, I'd describe your wiring as "non-standard" (red-colored items in the above diagram) As you're no doubt aware, with 75/35 you don't really need Cat5e from the ONT (your original diagram). It seems the highest tiers do require it, but in "standard" installations this run is coax directly to an 8-port non-powered splitter (below diagram), then from that splitter via coax to all STBs and CableCards, other TVs, et.), and also to the Actiontec. Subsequent feeds from the Actiontec to wired devices (including WAPs) are via Ethernet (typically Cat 5e).

In fact I don't immediately see how your STBs get additional services such as On Demand and IMG with the wiring shown in your diagram (perhaps someone can help me out here). In "standard" installs the Actiontec must be connected via coax to the ONT to provide such services to other network clients. I don't see that requirement being met here.

For starters I'd recommend that you change your service from WAN Ethernet to WAN coax. This can easily be accomplished over the telephone. Then I'd run coax directly from the ONT to the Actiontec as in my revised diagram below (blue-colored items). If your setup can manage with this arrangement, I think it will help greatly with the "freezing" issue.

ONT - - - - - - coax - - - - -
|
Fios Router --- coax--- Standard 8-Port Splitter --- coax --- Set Top Boxes
|cat5
Netgear Switch
|cat5 |cat5
WAP1 WAP2

Subsequent Note: You provided additional info while I was composing a response, and I'd like to offer another comment. Structured wiring "panels" of the type usually available are pre-configured to provide data, phone and video. This usually means that one is in certain respects limited by the ideas of the panel designer. I have what can be called a structured wiring layout, but it really is composed of individual small custom networks for each service (automation, security, video, data, telco, etc.), configured so that all wiring terminates in "home run" fashion at a central panel (a few details here: http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Home-Networking/Cmon-Show-Us-Your-Network/m-p/481733#M765 ). This layout makes it easier to make adjustments (and there have been quite a few over the intervening years). I'm thinking that in your case you may have to abandon the powered splitter (presumably) built into the panel in order to avoid your present fix.

Subsequent Subsequent Note: From your description it seems that you are using more than a single "whole house" DVR to supply programming to other devices. This is a bit puzzling to me because somewhere along the line I recall reading that only a single whole house DVR was allowed on the network. Can you elaborate a bit?

WayfarerII1

Thanks for pointing out a missed item in my config! I have coax AND ethernet coming from the ONT into the Fios router. The coax goes first to the splitter where the DVR's go, then from the spliter to the router for video services and the ethernet goes directly from the ONT to the router. I apologize for leaving that part out. As for powered/unpowered I am not sure whether what I have built into the house is good bad or indifferent but it's what all Beazer homes in my community (Brambleton, VA) use....been the same unit for 10 years. Here's a link to what I have.

http://www.legrand.us/onq/structured-wiring/enclosures/ustec/panel-assemblies/teclan8.aspx

The splitter I was given made no difference with regard to freezing and seemed to make things worse although I imagine things were just really the same so I moved back to the USTec splitter as the wiring was cleaner.

All network feeds in the house go to this core switch before the Fios router:

http://www.netgear.com/service-provider/products/switches/smart-switches/GS108T-200.aspx#

WAP's:

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/wirelessrouters/ultimate-performance/R6300.aspx#

WAP's again are configured for WAP only mode/roaming with same SSID and non-overlapping channels. No layer 3 services are enabled and WAP's are connected to the core via LAN ports.

All wiring is CAT5e or better and gigabit speeds are registered across all wired endpoints with the exception of the WAN side of the router fo course.

Going back to the coax/ethernet piece, with 75/35 I don't need the split setup; however, the techs configured it this way...but should the router be configured a certain way to allow the dual mode hookup? This has got me thinking that there is a loop of sorts between the coax side and the ethernet side. It would expalin why disconnecting everything ethernet wise except for the ONT-Fios router feed fixes video services as there is nothing on the LAN side talking back. More of a quesion than a theory...

Again, thank you all for your help! I know you all have more to do than fix my house but my whole family will be happy when this is resolved:)

armond_in_nj1

WayfarerII wrote:
Thanks for pointing out a missed item in my config! I have coax AND Ethernet coming from the ONT into the Fios router. ... As for powered/unpowered I am not sure whether what I have built into the house is good... Here's a link ...
http://www.legrand.us/onq/structured-wiring/enclosures/ustec/panel-assemblies/teclan8.aspx

All network feeds in the house go to this core switch before the Fios router:
http://www.netgear.com/service-provider/products/switches/smart-switches/GS108T-200.aspx#

Going back to the coax/ethernet piece, with 75/35 I don't need the split setup ... should the router be configured a certain way to allow the dual mode hookup? This has got me thinking that there is a loop of sorts between the coax side and the ethernet side. It would explain why disconnecting everything ethernet wise except for the ONT-Fios router feed fixes video services as there is nothing on the LAN side talking back. More of a question than a theory ...
Either way the "non-standard" layout would require some mods, but right now I'd only be speculating (who, me?).

There's of course nothing wrong with your structured panel, but the fact that it operated well on an other-than-FiOS system is probably not significant. Same comments for the switch (which in all likelihood is not offending in any way).

If you can stand it (and it's only a phone call), switch to WAN coax, reset the router, use a simple splitter, and see what happens. Frankly this sure looks like a KISS case.

WayfarerII1

I've called into the FSC but the network guys are heading home now so the cutover to pure coax will happen some time tomorrow while I'm at work. Hopefully the single point fo entry will fix everything. I am curious what happens when I eventually move to 100+Mb speeds and have to go split mode again....perhaps there is more going on at the fiber junction servicing the neighborhood that will change at that point and I wont be back in stutter-ville!

I'l report back tomorrow evening as to how things are running post cutover. Thanks for your help!

wraujr1

I will chime in with armond and tnj said. It sounds like you have a non-standard configuration.

First, get rid of the powered splitter. They are a hold over from the days of Comcast when a weak

analog cable signal came from the street (if you were far from an amp) and signal needed to be boosted.

You are getting plenty of power out of the ONT. I have ONT followed by 8:1 split (combo of 3's and 2's)

and my set top boxes report good power levels and S/N ratios. Powered splitters can affect 2-direction

com and can limit the bandwidth needed. And just because it works for 10 minutes does not mean it will

work reliably 24/7.

Second, it is my understanding that it is either Coax WAN from ONT or Cat5e WAN from ONT to Verixon router.

Early installs used both. My install from 2 years ago was ONT -> coax -> 8:1 split -> 75' coax -> to MI424 Router.

No Cat5e WAN on ONT is used.

Also data comm across the coax occurs with MOCA standard and I believe it supports over 240Mbps data rates so

you have no need for the cat-5e connection from ONT to MI424WR

Further, hanging off my Verizon MI424 I have two Linksys WRT54G Routers (do not use WAN port on router) and two Linksys GigE switches... Everything is tight and flawless... No need for power cycles etc.....

Due to wiring issues, I added a MOCA converter to create a remote hardwired cat-5e network off the coax (see right side of diagram). I see no need to use WAN RJ-45 port on ONT.

My diagram (notice, the home network is the coax cable):

ONT (in basement)

| (coax)

8:1 Split (in basement)

| (home coax wiring)

|------------|---------|------------|------------|--------------|------|---

MI424WR STB STB Samsung TV Recorder |

Router QIP-7216 QIP-7100 (local chnls) (local chnls) Actiontec

| HME2200

| Coax to RJ-45

|-----------| |

| | | (cat5e)

Dell Linksys Linksys

PC WRT54G GigE Switch

(wireless) |

|------------|------|

| | |

Linksys Dell Samsung

GigE Switch PC IP TV

|-------|---------|

| | |

Linksys WD WD

WRT54G Network Network

(wireless) Hard Drive Drive

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