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Third-party router for internet + phone`

Bleb1

I've just ended TV service with Verizon but (for now) am continuing with their internet and landline. I'm considering upgrading from my legacy 75 Mbps router to 300 Mbps service but would want to buy my own router.

Question 1: Is there a list somewhere of third-party routers that (a) are compatible with Verizon Fios, and (b) can support a landline phone (digital voice)? (None of the lists for Fios-compatible routers I've seen mention anything about phone service.)

Question 2: If I switched to Xfinity at some point (also with landline), would any of those routers work for them, too?

Thanks!

Accepted answers

Cang_Household

The official tech support does not do home network planning. For questions like this, you need to ask them here.

Like I said, if you can repurpose the telephone CAT5e's into Ethernets, that's the cheapest way to go. You can use any router you want and can have the router upstairs.

If not, you can either buy a non-VZ router and a pair (2) of MoCA adapters, OR a VZ router with a single (1) MoCA adapter. The MoCA adapter you linked is overpriced. goCoax is cheaper even comes with 2.5GbE ports.

All comments

dexman

When Verizon television is not subscribed to, most routers can be used. The only exception would be ones designed to work with Comcast.

The connection for Verizon Digital Voice is found on the ONT, as opposed to the router.

Comcast subscribers can purchase their own modem/router, but those units are not compatible with Fios.

Bleb1

Thanks for this quick reply.

First, I'm wondering why there are lists of routers online that indicate those specifically compatible with Verizon Fios. The implication is that not all routers will work - and I don't think they're excluding only those few that are compatible with Xfinity services.

Second, if, as you say, the connection for Verizon digital voice is on the ONT, does that mean that any router that works with Fios internet will also support the landline phone? (This certainly isn't true for Xfinity-compatible routers. Only one or two on that list will work with phone, too.)

dexman

The router is completely separate from the connection for Verizon Digital Voice. You could disconnect the router completely and still make & receive calls.

I used to use Linksys routers before going all in with Verizon's units. But the only routers that are not compatible with Fios are the ones specifically made for Comcast.

Comcast uses router/modems. Verizon uses modems. I'm not sure which general routers are not compatible with Fios.

If something is marked as a "cable modem" it won't work with Fios.

gs0b

@Bleb wrote:
First, I'm wondering why there are lists of routers online that indicate those specifically compatible with Verizon Fios.

Because someone wrote a bad article many years ago and click-bait web-sites keep re-posting it. Ignore all of them.

You can use any router you like with Verizon Fios when you're not using their TV service. Verizon will not support anything but their router, but other than that, there is nothing about the Fios WAN connection that limits you to specific router models.

The router has nothing to do with Fios Digital Voice (FDV.) FDV is handled completely by the ONT. Plug your phones into the jack on the ONT and you'll be good to go. You can unplug the router and phone will still work. Again, you can use any router you like with Verizon Fios.

As others have noted, cable modems are not used with Fios. All you need is a router. Any cable modem / router combo unit will not work with Fios, as they use the cable modem for the WAN connection. Don't use these, they won't work.

Again, you can use any ROUTER you want with Fios.

(Okay, you will have issues if you use a 20 year old Netgear with 100Mbps ports, but that should be obvious. You can use any modern router...)

Bleb1

Thanks to both of you for these reassuring responses about my router options.

As I understand it, my current ONT, even though Verizon installed it (at their own initiative, to support higher speeds) a couple of years ago to replace the one I already had, can't support >100Mbps, so they'd have to put in a new one if I upgrade to 300. My 10-year-old router is three floors up and I think it's connected via coax. Will the new system require them to somehow snake ethernet cable up three flights?

Also, my phone currently plugs into an ordinary wall jack. Did you mean it will now literally have to be plugged directly into the upgraded ONT (which is in the basement)?

dexman

If your telephone service is being provided by Verizon Fios, when the technician replaces the old ONT with a new one, the technician will disconnect the cables from the old ONT and connect them to the new one. Nothing will need to be done with the wall jacks in the house.

Would it be possible to take a few pictures of the current ONT and post them for us to see what it and the attached wires/cables look like? 🤔

Side note: submitted pictures go into queue for a Moderator to check before they can be seen by the rest of us. 🙂

Bleb1

So does that mean my phone can continue to be plugged into one of those wall jacks rather than directly into the ONT?

(A photo of my current ONT set-up is attached.)

gs0b

A picture is worth 1000 words... should have lead with this picture!

Great news, here's how you can get faster speeds and save a lot of money without having Verizon come to your home.

Step 1: Find the Ethernet jack on the ONT.

Step 2: Run an Ethernet cable from the ONT to your router's WAN port(*).

Note: This step is something Verizon assumes most users can't do. That's why they are telling you they need to send a technician to "upgrade wiring." DIY and you'll unlock the next level of the Verizon ordering system game!

Step 3: Contact Verizon support via chat or social media and ask them to provision your ONT for Ethernet WAN. Takes a few minutes and doesn't cost anything. Bonus: After this is done, you can switch to any router you like.

Step 4: Wait for Verizon's ordering system to be updated with the changes in their provisioning system. Might take a day or two, or maybe faster. Once done, you'll be able to order 300/300 without a Verizon technician visit. Depending on your current service, you may even be able to do this all online. They may even include a Verizon router which would solve your ancient router problem.

(*) Okay, this step might be complex depending on the location of the ONT and router and your home's construction. If you're not able to run an Ethernet cable yourself, I suggest you hire a handyman with experience in network cabling to install it. While you could pay Verizon to run the cable, they don't fish them inside walls. If you can find a trusted handyman, they will likely do a neater job. Or, you can review many of the web sites and videos that describe how to install Ethernet.

Bleb1

@gs0b: Thanks for the suggestion. As I mentioned, though, my router is 3 floors up from the ONT. Even if the ONT doesn't have to be upgraded, I was thinking that the main reason for having a Verizon tech show up -- for which I think I can get them to waive the fee -- would be to run an ethernet cable through the walls and up to the router. (Offhand I don't know a handyman who could do that.) (I hope you're mistaken that Verizon employees won't go through the walls, because I wouldn't want cable on the outside of my house.)

On the phone, a Verizon tech rep told me that another option is to put the router next to the ONT and set up an extender in my office (connected to the same coax port that my current router plugs into). But (a) then I'd have to buy or rent an extender as well as a router, and (b) wouldn't I lose a fair bit of the speed I'm upgrading to if the extender that my desktop plugs into is back to being coax-based?

gs0b

Verizon techs don't fish walls. The will go through walls (room-to-room) with a drill, but won't put cables inside walls. They tack them to the outside of walls. If you don't want to learn how to fish walls yourself (it's not that hard), look for a home theater or network installer. Those folk should know how to do this neatly.

Using a coax extender is a reasonable solution. You can get full speeds with the latest gear. The limitation on WAN speeds over coax is due to the ancient MoCA chip used on the ONT. You don't have to rent an extender from Verizon, you can purchase them, too.

You could move your router next to the ONT, and then follow the steps I outlined above to get faster speeds without a Verizon visit. If you upgrade to a plan from that includes a router, you'll want to purchase a MoCA adapter that works with that model of router.

If you don't need WiFi on the 3rd floor, you can save money by purchasing a MoCA adapter. It provides just Ethernet. The Verizon Network Extenders include WiFi, which can be useful. Here's a helpful link to see what gear Verizon sells:
https://www.verizon.com/home/accessories/networking-wifi/

You can do

Bleb1

This is very helpful. Now I'm wondering, though, whether I've been too inflexible in assuming I have to keep the router (or an extender) upstairs so that my desktop can continue to have a (presumably superior) hard-wired ethernet connection. Maybe if I upgrade from 75 to 300 Mbps, and to a new router (from my ancient Actiontec), the wireless network in my house will be improved to the point that my desktop will get better speeds that way than it does now with an ethernet connection. Thus, no need for running cable upstairs or for MoCA adapters or coax extenders. Is that reasonable?

(Actually my desktop doesn't have wireless receiver, but I assume I can buy an external one pretty cheaply.)

Cang_Household

I see bunch of CAT5e wires bundled together and serving as telephone lines? This is not using CAT5e to its maximum potential.

If you have phone jacks around the house, you can convert them all to Ethernet jacks. If you have two Ethernet wires going to the same room, great, put your router there. One Ethernet for WAN, the other for LAN, coming back down to here, add a managed switch to link all other Ethernet wires. Done.

dexman

Yes, those cables are being used for POTS. Look carefully at the picture and you'll notice that the Blue/White pairs are wire nutted to another 4-pair which ends up eventually plugged into the L1 jack on the ONT.

Voice jacks are either 6p4c or 6p2c. Using Ethernet jacks for voice is not recommended.

With the decline in the availability of CAT3 cabling, CAT5E is now the go to for voice. Verizon will use CAT6 for voice to simplify stocking company vehicles.

Bleb1

After spending some time on the phone with another Verizon tech rep, and then rereading your posts here, I'm coming to think that my best option, after upgrading to 300 Mbps, is to plug the ONT into a new router (downstairs) and plug my desktop (upstairs) via ethernet cable into a MoCA adapter. (Am I using the terminology correctly? I want an adapter rather than an extender because I don't need to boost the wireless signal upstairs?)

Is this the sort of product I want, regardless of what sort of new router I get and regardless of whether or not I get it from Verizon?

And one other question: Do most routers - the kind Verizon offers as well as the kind I could buy from Linksys, Google, etc. - support MoCA so that I won't need to buy a second adapter to attach to the router?

Cang_Household

The official tech support does not do home network planning. For questions like this, you need to ask them here.

Like I said, if you can repurpose the telephone CAT5e's into Ethernets, that's the cheapest way to go. You can use any router you want and can have the router upstairs.

[Deleted User]

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your comments and opinions related to this topic. This topic has been thoroughly discussed and will now be closed. Please feel free to open a new thread for further discussion. Thank you.

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