Desperate need for FIOS installation info

[need_fios_info]

I have been informed that my service will be cut off in two weeks unless I schedule update to fiber, I currently have POTS and DSL in Montgomery county Maryland.

I have spent past month trying to get basic info from Verizon so I can plan for this but getting no help. The only thing I have gotten from them is that the ONT must be installed inside the house in either basement or garage (despite the fact that my neighbors all seem to have it outside).

I have some questions:

1 - If ONT in installed in the basement, can the data cable (coax or RJ) can be sent back outside to go to around the house to the room where router needs to be, and brought back in through exterior wall (in similar fashion to how CATV is provided)?

2 - I have read that they will not fish cables. Assuming they can bring data cable through exterior wall into family room,  I still need to route cable from to router on other side of family room (through fireplace cabinets) in advance, but I would need to know the type of cable in advance (CAT5e, 75 ohm coax, 50 ohm coax?)

3 - If ONT is installed in basement, but not near NID, will POTS lines will be sent back outside and routed around the house to NID?

4- Can fiber be routed directly into family room with ONT placed inside cabinets beside fireplace? This would have fiber enter into living space of room, in similar fashion to CATV cables. Are there concerns about bend radius?  Is this fiber cable more fragile than CATV cables (bumping with vacuum etc)? Or must it be installed in either basement or garage?

5 - Exactly how big is the ONT & power supply? If they are wall mounted in basement, can a cabinet be provided that hides all wiring from view, and allows all wiring to go into wall behind cabinet? Or are we stuck with all of the dangling wires?

The reason for the questions is that the section of the basement inside of location of NID (and electrical) is finished, I would have to open drywall to reach exterior access hole. (and repair at my own expense).

There is a section of basement that is not finished, but it is not near NID. In both cases I would rather not have wires hanging from wall where kids can pull on them.

Many thanks

[jonjones1]

DEPends on if you are getting just internet or internet, tv and phone or combination of both or neither.

if this is internet only, it is possible it is one of the newer small size of a g1100 gateway router which can be placed anywhere in the home where there is an electrical outlet for power. You could have them come in from the outside (they can drill a small hole and fill it with weatherproof gel) the older outside wall mounted ont’s you could have it done same way. I had them drill from outside to a back room where there was a power outlet and UPS battery backup. I then ran cat6 from the ont to my own personal router.

now if you have tv and phone they can still put the smaller ont into any space you wish again with power outlet. For tv the run coaxial from ont to set top box where you can decide how you want it run. They will work with you.

by the way verizon does not include the old battery backup so thats not an issue.

the power supply is an electrical cord plugged into a wall outlet.

[need_fios_info]

Thanks for the feedback,

This will be for phone and Internet only (no TV). When they run data cable from ONT, can this include going back outside and running it along exterior? There is no way to route a cable from my basement to my family room inside the house.

[jonjones1]

It can be placed anywhere you want. Doesn’t have to be a basement all that is needed is an electrical outlet.

[need_fios_info]

I would prefer ONT in basement if they are able to run data cable back outside, and have it re-enter house in family room. I need to know if this is an option. Even if I agree to have ONT in family room wouldn't POTS need to go back outside to get to NID?

[CRobGauth]

Is your current NID outside?

They may put the ONT ouside the house.

Mine is mounted on the side of my house.

You will need to talk to tech to see how they will run the ethernet for your Internet access.

[jonjones1]

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@need_fios_info wrote:

I would prefer ONT in basement if they are able to run data cable back outside, and have it re-enter house in family room. I need to know if this is an option. Even if I agree to have ONT in family room wouldn't POTS need to go back outside to get to NID?

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I believe the verizon tech over at dslreports stated it was no problem, and that they handle the whole situation for the customers. You should be ok. Not to worry !

[need_fios_info]

Does "handle the whole situation for customers" include removing drywall from basement ceiling then replacing and painting when done? I don't think so, but this is what would need to be done for preferred basement install. I would have been willing to facilitate this if I knew in advance what the plan was, but I am not going to open drywall then have them decide to do something else.

I spend time yesterday drilling holes in cabinets to provide path for cables to get from wall to router. Will they fish cables through? From what I have read on forums, the installers do not fish cables. I suspect they will drop cables on floor in plain sight in front of my fireplace. I would have pre-installed cables if I had known cable type (cat5e or coax) but I can't even get a straight answer on this.

[jonjones1]

No it means they will find the best solution for the install.

the guy i used almost three years ago wanted to put it in a spare room, but i said drill a hole along the bass board we fished the power and rj45 ethernet cable through. I had him mount the ONT above where the hole was drilled on the outside. I had a ups and power outlet right at the incoming lines. I then had him run the ethernet to my customer owned router with a load of slack. 

He was very accommodating and took maybe 30 minutes to full system complete.

alrhough they are not required to take tips, i gave him a huge tip for helping me.

he would not leave until all was working. Great installer and no complaints.

stop worrying and let them do their jobs.

they have done a gazillion installs over the years. 

[need_fios_info]

My problem is that I cannot do my job, which is to prepare the house so that the installer can do what I want without burdening them. Problem is that getting basic info about what can and can't be done is like pulling teeth. For example, if they run the RJ or coax outside of the house they may be required by code to ground the ONT to something other than the 3rd prong of the DC power brick inside the house. This was a big issue in New York a few years ago. This means they need to hook into existing ground rod at NID or have access to a water pipe?

After a gizillion installs they should have been able to provide more than "we will put it in the best place". With DSL, I currently have wired Ethernet in every room in my house that has a phone jack. I am losing this, so what's best for me is not so obvious and depends a lot on their installation capabilities and constraints.

[Edg1 · Accepted solution]

If ONT is installed in the basement yes a data wire can be ran back outside to Family room. Verizon now runs cat5e or cat6 to router from ONT. So if you do run the wire just make sure you are using CMX Outdoor rated cable with solid conductors not stranded. Basically the kind you buy with pre-terminated end is not outdoor rated and will usually have stranded conductors. And it won't last, the sheath will rot over time alot faster that outdoor rated. I would also run RG6 75 Ohm since you will need it if you ever get TV service.

They will also tie in you phone line either back at the NID if need be and will also use outdoor rated cable to do so if in the basement.

You can run fiber into the Family room although I would recommend against it because if anything happens to your fiber they will typically have to run the whole thing over because when splicing fiber you normally need a foot of cable from both sides.

My ONT is about 9 inches by 6 inches and an inch thick. About the size of a router. Power supply is even smaller. My ONT is inside the garage and is Alcatel 211ML is you want to look at it online. Hopefully that is the one they will use for your house.

From what I see from all your previous posts I think I would probably be easier to put the ONT outside and run short piece of cable to nid. Then run cat6 exterior to Family room and run power to unfinished part of basement. But if you do want ONT in the basement then you would just need to run the cable to nid and Family room. ONT also supposed to be grounded with 10 gauge wire which also will need to be ran out if ONT goes inside. I saw on previous posts that Verizon does prefer ONT installations inside as first choice.

I also have a question for you. You say you have data and phone jacks at every location. Are both ran with cat5e and homeran back to a termination point. If so you could convert the phone jack to data and use that to feed to the other data lines and install a data switch.

[need_fios_info]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I don't have data jacks. With DSL I had hardwired access to Internet from any room in house that has phone jack. With FIOS now I have hardwired access in only one room.

Installation was today, here is brief summary:

They said that normally cable is buried prior to installation day. However, cable had not yet been buried, so they ran a temporary cable above ground across a couple of neighbor's driveways. This was fortunate because once they saw my below grade finished basement they realized that it would not be easy to bring fiber through the wall there without opening drywall. They mentioned that outdoor installation was possible, but it would have to be located quite distant from both NID and family room where router is.

They went with my "plan C" and brought fiber into family room. They mounted a "transition box" on the exterior wall near where cable penetrates wall. This terminates the sturdy underground cable and feeds the thin stuff that is fed into house. They wanted to run fiber across to other side of room to my desk, but I was concerned about exposing the fiber to damage. I had them put ONT inside cabinets that are right next to where fiber comes through exterior wall.

The ONT is the Alcatel I-211M-L. I requested in advance the "desktop" ONT (https://www.dslreports.com/faq/16637) since I thought there was good chance it would get installed in family room. They gave me two cat6 cables to fish through my cabinets and route to other side of room while they worked outside. One cable for data, one for POTS. I was surprised that they did not have POTS cable or RJ11 termination tool. They spliced a short RJ11 jumper to the cat6 cable at each end. They said they had never backfed POTS into modular jack inside of house, only to NID. I got the impression that they are either replacing POTS at the NID, or putting in data to wherever the customer wants, but rarely both.

The cat6 to RJ11 jumper seems fragile and does look professional, I think I will replace it with a normal POTS cable with RJ11 at each end. POTS cables are much thinner as well.

My next step, in addition to replacing POTS cable, is to figure out how to dress cables along wall. I have light brown carpet, dark brown wood panel walls, dark brown molding and white cat6 cables. Seems like choices are:

1 - cables under edge of carpet. I'm not sure how to lift carpet and get it back onto tack strip. Also, is there risk that tack strips can damage cables?

2 - cables under molding, I'm not sure how much room there is behind molding

3 - cables stapled to outside of molding.

Anyone know which of these is the more professional method.

Thanks

[need_fios_info]

Meant to say they normally bury fiber cable *up to location of NID* prior to install day (and without customer involvement). They would have had to run a long piece of the thin stuff around exterior and into the family room if this had been done in advance.

[need_fios_info]

T + 1 month update:

I am still running over temporary fiber cable, neighbors are getting a little impatient, someone strung part of it up into tree branches so they could mow their grass.

The day after the install, a team arrived and buried a cable up to house to the transfer box, but it has not been swapped in the transfer box yet.

Received letter today saying that my service has been suspended because I did not provide Verizon with access to the house to update to fiber. Called customer service and was told that I was still on copper and needed to move over to fiber (along with the typical sales pitch, "its more reliable" etc.) which is strange since DSL modem went out with the trash 3 weeks ago.

For anyone replacing DSL and wanting to keep traditional phone service here are some takeaways from this:

If customer service tells you that equipment cannot be installed outside, and must go in basement or garage, don't believe them. Fiber can come into your house anywere you what, but you have to plan. The installers also said that they can install ONT outside if that makes the most sense.

Don't necessarily let them decide where to terminate the exterior cable and bring cable into house. They use a *very* heavy duty cable underground (my temporary cable has been driven over by cars for a month). But it gets transitioned to a very thin, fragile cable before entering the house. Typically this transition is at the old NID location and is hidden inside of box.  If they install ONT in basement at the NID location you will only have access to the Internet in the rest of the house via their wireless ONT located underground in your basement, the worst possible location from RF propagation perspective. If they run fiber from NID location around the exterior of the house to have it enter elsewhere, they are running a very thin, fragile cable which can be damaged.  This thin cable looks like it should be kept very short and away from anything that may damage it. If it is running around the exterior of the house it could be damaged by a frisbee.

Don't assume that you need to provide access via old NID if you want to keep traditional dial tone service. The same phone jack that your DSL modem was connected to can be backfed with phone connection from ONT (but you will have to buy and fish your own RJ-11 cable).

Don't necessarily pre-cable inside your house. Verizon tech support insisted that coax was required for 50Mbps service. I almost pre-installed it but decided to wait. Sure enough installers said that they only use CAT6 even for 50Mbps.

[need_fios_info]

Some additional info for those being forced from copper into fiber:

After fiber upgrade two things you should be aware of:

1 - If you have been using an answering machine, and want to continue with this for call screening etc., it will no longer work after this upgrade.

Verizon hijacks calls unanswered after a few rings and directs them to a Verizon voicemail. They do not notify customer in advance that they will be doing this, and it is up to the customer to call repair to have this remedied.

2 - After this "upgrade", don't expect previous services that you had over copper to be enabled. For example international calls are blocked until you call a special department that is responsible for enabling this.

In both cases, I would recommend that you insist that these be handled by the folks that are in your house doing the install. Once they leave, it will be up to you to spend the countless hours at 1-800-VERIZON getting these things fixed, and you may be charged.

Hope this helps someone.

[Norrin_Radd]

Thanks.  Big help.