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Fios Tv can no longer be called "STUNNING" after img 1.60 update!

SD picture quality is now very, very soft (almost out of focus). All video settings on both my HD-DVRs and both televisions have been verified and set correctly. This new "update" that Verizon has sent has now taken the "WOW" factor out of Fios. This is also the experience of other subscribers as evidenced by their posts on other forums such as "dslreports.com". I am still within my 90 trial period and am seriously considering cancelling my service. Had this issue been existent at time of installation I would have told the technicians to take it all back out. My DirecTv picture quality was noticeably better. I realize this is primarily an SD PQ issue but there are quite a few Fios channels I watch that are not available in HD. I'm sure if "PC Magazine" (referenced in all Fios ads) were to have seen this, they would never have called it "STUNNING".

Comments

ChaplainPC

I agree with this assessment. Whatever they did, they need to undo it!

GodwinTurk

Personally, I have not noticed any change in my SD picture. I am on Long Island and rec'd the upgrade 10/9.

Techman28

BelTelMel

My suggestion would be to call in to have that issue corrected. 1-888-553-1555

matcarl

Verizon knows of the issue and are working on a fix. The newer model DVR's (7xxx series) are not affected

Message Edited by matcarl on 10-17-2008 02:02 PM

royceguy

No problems here after the update, but I have a newer DVR.

Only issue was getting a 1/2 second sound/video sync problem watching "The Matrix" on one of the HBO HD channels the other night....which was a little freaky.

rkkeller

I agree my SD is really bad now. First I thought something happened to my TV.

Some channels like my locals are almost unwatchable, very soft and blurry.

Yaco

Agreed!! All Sd channels are blurrier than with the last upgrade which I thought was blurry too. It is worse ! Checked with 2 HD TV's.

Fix it please

Lee Man Mad

TimSykes

I have the new 7xxx boxes, and I would say the SD stuff looks bad on it. I just moved from time Warner last week, and fios sd looks bad. {edited for courtesy} my gf even says it looks bad, and she can never tell the difference, nor cares about HD.

Message Edited by CharlotteS on 10-22-2008 09:50 AM

KenAF

The video drivers for Motorola boxes are available with different output and quality parameters. The top quality setting requires more memory and memory bandwidth. The lower quality settings make more memory and more memory bandwidth available for the software, but at the expense of picture quality. It has something to do with compression of decoded video data within the CPU; the highest quality setting might use 24-bit color whereas the lower quality setting might be "effective" 18-bit or 20-bit color after compression.

It sounds like Verizon adjusted those driver parameters to provide more memory and memory bandwidth (and therefore performance) for IMG 1.6, at the expense of picture quality on the 6000 models. If the 7000 is not affected, then that would suggest to me that the 7000 has more memory, i.e. enough memory to support IMG 1.6 with the higher quality output mode.

I do know that FiOS picture quality from the TivoHD is now significantly better than the 6416 DVR, whereas the differences pre-1.6 were much more subtle.

Yaco

Hi,

Any news on he problem? I called and they reset my box ,overnighted my box and told me they know nothing of this issue. I sent the box back, it had same issue.Now they want to waste more money on a truck roll,

Lee Robot Mad

Message Edited by Yaco on 10-22-2008 04:56 PM

hosehead1

Any updates?

After several disappointing calls to CS, I have gotten no where. They are sending a truck to my house to check the signal (just installed yesterday, BTW), but from what I have heard, swapping a 6xxx for another 6xxx will do nothing. My SD picture is garbage. Everything is soft and fuzzy, even moreso on channels like Fox Soccer Channel. It is as bad as it ever was on Comcast...

I had such high hopes for FiOS TV, and I am bitterly disappointed...

Techman28

yes the Fuzzy picture is being resolved in the next upcoming upgrade 1.7 I was advised of a November December release but has not been confirmed as of yet

munch357

I noticed it too when I received the update. I was playing around with the menu and noticed that there is a SD override option that selects the resolution for non-HD channels. There is a 480i, 480p and Off option. I put the 480p option on to see what it does and agree that non-HD channels are very blurry and out of focus. I returned to the same menu and turned the option Off and the non-HD channels went back to looking how they were before the upgrade.. Might want to play around with the dispaly options before spending hours on the phone with customer service..

snowmon

1.6 may as well be considered a step back. sd picture quality now equals comcast status (bad). unless i set sd to stretch i have to cycle power on-off when switching between hd and sd. hdmi/hdcp issues which were non-existent prior to 1.6 now a problem. comcast is raising the bar on internet speeds and i'm considering switching back.

jbr60

On Demand quality is subpar also. I've had better reception with rabbit ears!

Searay90

I live in Flower Mound TX. We got the 1.6img update last week and it finally fixed the issue with HDMI connection at 1080i causing the "beveled edge" on the left side of the screen........ It took Verizon alomost two years to fix that issue they say they knew nothing about. Now the SD channels and SD VOD look like crap.. all out of focus and blurry. This is only an issue on the HD DVR 6416 model. The two stand def QIP2500 STB look fine . SO once again verizon has taken one step forward and two steps back with the latest update to the software/firmware on the 6416 models. My take is that they used more of the CPU bandwidth and memory 1) fixing the huge delays in navigating the VOD menus , and 2) adding all the new stuff that their IT guy Shygon loves to tout to the street. So now I have faster menu response in my VOD , but the wife and I can't stand to watch any of the SD VOD on our 46" Sharp LCD 1080p TV. It actually hurts our eyes because we are trying to focus on something that is out of focus to start with.

And yes I have tried each of the SD output setting (off, 480i, 480p, etc) and they all look the same on SD output. Now if we go to watch the same things on the 32" CRT TV attached to the QIP2500 STB in another room it looks fine. So it's not the signal coming into the house........ its what they did to the QIP6416 this time around.

Come on Verizon........... you continue to lose customers by putting out untested junk like this in the market and then deny that there is an issue with it when we call the customer support centers.

This needs to be fixed ASAP, or I am going to drop my FIOS Tripple play and find and alternative. I've been with you guys with the TV service since it was frist offered in Flower Mound.... but being a continual BETA tester and paying the ever increasing prices for your service is coming to an end.

jlbaird

@Searay90 wrote:
I live in Flower Mound TX. We got the 1.6img update last week and it finally fixed the issue with HDMI connection at 1080i causing the "beveled edge" on the left side of the screen........ It took Verizon alomost two years to fix that issue they say they knew nothing about. Now the SD channels and SD VOD look like crap.. all out of focus and blurry. This is only an issue on the HD DVR 6416 model. The two stand def QIP2500 STB look fine . SO once again verizon has taken one step forward and two steps back with the latest update to the software/firmware on the 6416 models. My take is that they used more of the CPU bandwidth and memory 1) fixing the huge delays in navigating the VOD menus , and 2) adding all the new stuff that their IT guy Shygon loves to tout to the street. So now I have faster menu response in my VOD , but the wife and I can't stand to watch any of the SD VOD on our 46" Sharp LCD 1080p TV. It actually hurts our eyes because we are trying to focus on something that is out of focus to start with.
And yes I have tried each of the SD output setting (off, 480i, 480p, etc) and they all look the same on SD output. Now if we go to watch the same things on the 32" CRT TV attached to the QIP2500 STB in another room it looks fine. So it's not the signal coming into the house........ its what they did to the QIP6416 this time around.
Come on Verizon........... you continue to lose customers by putting out untested junk like this in the market and then deny that there is an issue with it when we call the customer support centers.
This needs to be fixed ASAP, or I am going to drop my FIOS Tripple play and find and alternative. I've been with you guys with the TV service since it was frist offered in Flower Mound.... but being a continual BETA tester and paying the ever increasing prices for your service is coming to an end.

This message sums up the problem really well. How can Verizon FIOS talk about the super clarity of their pictures, and then put out SD pictures that make people

feel that their eyes are going bad?

Also, I've noticed that the direct digital cable that comes in as HD, which I feed straight to my TV, produces a better picture than the one that comes through the STB - try it, and compare

e.g. NBC HD or PBS HD coming straight from the cable with that coming through the STB.

There's a lot I like about FIOS, but several things I don't at all - and this tops the list.

TheSanchez

Here is some information I recieved(you techies should like this) in an email the other day that will clarify the softer SD picture, sorry for the wall of text:

The old IPG(verizon's first FiOS TV guide) was designed a few years back and was set to the highest "sharpness" level to allow SD video to look good on the older CRT TVs. When we launched FiOS TV, this was the primary TV type in the field. After about a year, flat panel TVs began to take hold of the consumer market at a much faster pace and as our customers bought new TVs, we started to get PQ complaints about SD video on their new HDTVs. Besides the industry standard tagline of expected poor picture quality of 480i video unconverted for display on a 1366+ x 768+ resolution screen, we did find that the MPEG vertical filter set to a level of 26 allowed for the edges of the MPEG macroblocks building the image to be visible. So we began to work towards what changes we could make to improve SD PQ on HDTVs. The first change came when we first began IMG deployment IMG 1.0. The primary change here was a video scale change for SD from 704 pixels wide to 720 pixels wide - but no changes were made to the vertical filter (still at level 26). All subsequent IMG releases up to 1.03 did not change anything else to the vertical filter. We were in the midst of QIP7xxx development when the above releases of IMG 1.03, 1.04, 1.05 came out for the 6xxxs and 2500s. The next release was IMG 1.5, and this was when we began QIP7xxx deployment. With IMG 1.5, we finally made changes to the MPEG vertical filter that we had wanted to do since the IPG. Even though we put the vertical filter where we wanted (level 6), Motorola had turned off MAD (motion adaptive deinterlacing) due to a request to support gaming low latency. IMG 1.6 was where we were able to correct MAD being left out of IMG 1.5. IMG 1.6 represents the picture quality settings we had come up with 18 months ago from our testing with IPG. IMG 1.6 has the MPEG vertical filter set to level 6 (softer than 26, but not set to 0) and it has MAD turned on. The reason we have been saying IMG 1.6 will help SD picture quality on HDTVs is because the softening of the MPEG vertical filter allows for all the MPEG "mosquito noise" visible at level 26 to get cleaned up. Yes, the picture is changed slightly, and could be called "softer"; but by all of our user studies - it was an absolute improvement. Note that these settings were not made for any specific TV, it is changes to how the ASTBs process SD video - HD video is not affected. So now lets talk about IMG 1.6.1. Since it was 18 months between when we created the desired setting changes for IPG, that finally got implemented in IMG 1.6 - there has been much improvement with flat panel TVs (obviously). So, earlier this year we did another study with picture quality - and the result of this round of testing will come out in IMG 1.6.1. The picture is slightly sharper than what is in 1.6 and we put in a little edge enhancement. Again, by all accounts PQ in 1.6.1 is nothing but improved over 1.6. Now for the Good Stuff:However - as we recognize that every customer prefers their PQ to look a certain way, we are currently working on creating an "MPEG Slider" in IMG. Basically a menu option the customer can access to adjust the vertical filter / smoothing / edge enhancement abilities of the Broadcom chip in the STB. It will have 5 selectable settings available to choose from on this slider bar - the customer won't know the details behind each setting - only that they can select one and decide if they like the PQ better or worse (much like the available picture settings on the TV itself). Once they have tried all 5 out, then they can choose which one they want to use, and of course change it later at any time. Again, these settings would only affect SD PQ on an ASTB. One of these settings will be "Off", which will disable all video post processing altogether (which is what the Mot boxes with the other MSOs do today - but they will be implementing changes like we have made soon). So here you have it ladies and gentleman. Take it for what you will. There was a lot of commotion about this over on DSL reports.com and this is what i recieved when i inquired. The basic meaning behind that giant wall of text is that it was an unintentional side effect of the changes made to help HDTVs(according to the author of the email). The changes were put into place without giving us, the customers(i am also a verizon employee but i am here talking to you guys as a consumer as well), a way to change settings. That way will be coming in a future release.

Keyboards

So, after reading your "wall of text" 2 questions come to mind:

Why mess with the SD signal at all? It is a digital signal and I have a sharpness control on my set - just pass it on as received (another reason for a "pass-thru" mode on the STB).
When will 1.6.1 be in general release? I have been "forced" by Verizon's crappy SD PQ to move a DCT-700 to my 52" Sharp LCD in order to be able to watch any SD channel (the cheapest adaptor gives the best SD PQ - it probably doesn't do any post processing, just outputs the data as received - go figure).

TheSanchez

I understand exactly where you are coming from Keyboards. As a consumer as well I am plagued by all of the problems that everyone else here has. As for question one, I believe I have the answer for you. When I had cox cable service my standard picture was ok and HD was ok. When I moved over to FiOS 8 months ago my SD picture became amazing on one of my samsung slimfit CRT TV sets. I would assume that is why it was done(I can only assume because I am not an IMG developer). And as you notice towards the end of the email the author did say that one of the 5 settings of the new MPEG bar will be an off setting which will basically be a passthrough much like the DCT700 model. As far as the 1.6.1 release there really arent any firm dates as the dates change very frequently depending on what code they are implementing and what code they are taking out.

I am really sorry about the frustration this is causing because I am in the same boat as you in terms of my SD picture on my big(screen 48" sony), so I really know how you feel.

Yaco

Hi,

Hope you didn't mind but I posted your comment in DSL Reports Smiley Happy

Lee

Message Edited by Yaco on 11-06-2008 08:56 AM

Yaco

Hi,

Can someone from your department get a date or timeframe for update deployment?

Thx

Lee

Techman28

1.6.1 will begin later this month possibly early next month. Our last areas to receive the 1.6 upgrade are tonight so it could start next week but things are subject to change.

hosehead1

What upsets me the most is that this service was sold to me on PQ. I made the move to FiOS for the PQ.

So why didn't someone tell me when they were selling this to me that "The PQ is AWESOME! (Once we fix what we broke)"

I was duped into changing TV providers with the promise of superior PQ and I am not getting it. There should be a law against this (isn't there already?).

So now that I have been deceived, what next?

{edited for content}

Message Edited by CharlotteS on 11-10-2008 01:14 PM

hosehead1

{no personal comments, please}

I was deceived. I was sold this product on picture quality, and the picture quality sucks. That is a deceptive trade practice.

{edited}

They are getting MY money for something that is not what they promised.

Message Edited by hosehead on 11-10-2008 10:59 AM

Message Edited by CharlotteS on 11-10-2008 01:11 PM

[Deleted User]

Hi everyone,

Feel free to discuss the issues, but please stick to the support topic and avoid personal comments. Thanks. 🙂

Yaco

Hi,

Ask for Credit or go back. That is what I am planning to do when my 2 yr agreement is done with. I figure if they cannot fix it ALL by Feb. I'll go back to Cablevision.

THx

Lee

Man Very Happy

vik

I Just spoke with verizon fios tech, they haven't even heard of this update. They just reset my boxes and escalated the ticket. What's going on here?

TimSykes

@vik wrote:
I Just spoke with Verizon fios tech, they haven't even heard of this update. They just reset my boxes and escalated the ticket. What's going on here?

Yeah phone support for fios is not the best, they official fios guys here are good with updating info on the forums here. Everything you need to know is posted in this thread.

juice421

It's not just the phone guys ( who pretty much are useless, I just tell them basically what to do) it's also the truck guys too. Those guys are very nice and they know their technical stuff, but they also have NO CLUE about the problems facing Fios right now, especially the SD PQ issue.

It's so bad that they even complain about the communication problems Verizon has, and woudl you believe that this is a communications company? It's sad really, with such a great service they have these terrrible issues that keep dragging the service down.

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